Mara nerf - why?

[Aceboltz]

It's ok guys, they are doing quite well on city scoreboards xD

[KidCrestHill]

Ya,this is why my guild is leaving Destro

[Raldoran]

Ya,this is why my guild is leaving Destro

So your leaving Destro because the devs fixed something that by the admission of an awful lot of Mara players was overturned and needed looking at? that's a pretty sad reason to do so.

Mara's haven't been broken as result of this, they are still doing excellent damage in the cities. If your response to every minor tweak is to rage and quit your going to be doing that almost every patch

If you want broken you should look at some of the other classes out there that have been essentially untouched for years in the same state (WH i'm looking at you in particular)

[Awoosome]

the changes were fine in mara. just a little adjustment on accessory, talisman, mastery and consumables and you wont even notice the psm changes.

[teiloh]

That being said, the Marauder's ST problem currently isn't it's burst damage. It's that the Marauders "debuff" mastery path (something not even mirrored to the WL, thanks Mythic for this awful 4 way mirror), is bad. It's bad because it's been systematically nerfed since 2008 into a point of complete irrelevancy, and no longer provides the level or strength of the debuffs needed to be a viable class. Unlike a tank class who debuffs, or other MDPS that debuff, a Marauder in Savagery spec only has one purpose, and that's to do "ok ST damage and debuff targets". They don't have all the normal tank utility such as guard, challenges, bellows, etc... They also don't do good (ST) damage for a damage class, so unlike other DPS who debuffs, if this stance doesn't function then it has no purpose. No other MDPS (or any DPS class) has a "debuff" mastery path, most classes are built in a way that their debuffs are scattered throughout the rest of their mastery paths.

The WL/Mara aren't 100% direct mirrors, and they don't need to be. They had very similar AoE abilities, so those definitely should be normalized. However, what the Mara needs is a functional savagery path, which isn't something you can look to the WL or reference the WL for, to balance (as the WL doesn't even have comparable abilities).

Let's put it this way. The Mara "Wounds debuff" is a 13 point ability in the mastery path that has been nerfed so hard its worthless. It's worse then what a BG can do, and barely higher value than the AoE wounds debuff on a chosen, debuffs on two tank classes that bring a helluva lot more utility. Aka, it's a worthless 13 point ability that there is no reason to bring to almost any situation besides 1v1 (and it's not even great there). The Mara is also the only DPS class (not tank/support) that has to use a tactic slot to get a 50% heal debuff. The Mara AP drains don't do much and are mostly ineffective as they are either nerfed (40 over 3 seconds isn't much with all the pumps around), or just designed poorly (-50% ap regen on a single target basically does almost nothing, again too many pumps around). So you basically have a mastery path which you spec for the same armor debuff the WL gets, and then a bunch of junk you don't want besides being forced to pick up a tactic to be able to ST heal debuff.

The WH/WE do have a debuff path, and it's worse than the Mara's imo. It's just that the debuffs are so lackluster that it doesn't count as a debuff line, despite the damage/DPS on Fervor/EB being horrible. To be honest most of the ST MDPS specs are not viable outside of the smallest scales.

As for Mara vs. WL damage I'd still wager that the Mara does quite a bit more because Monstro proc helps them stay stuck in, and this is before getting into complexities like group synergy or the possibility of WLs being AP starved from Destro drains. Then there's also things like WB being a bit cheaper than Whirling Axe, and if I'm not mistaken both WB/Demo having slightly higher base values. Also the Mara DoT is in the same line as the rest of their AOE and simply hits harder than Echoing Roar. Then MA also lacks the positional requirement that PF has, which is a big deal. Ferocious Assault is a small cherry on top as well.

[baurogg]

Ya,this is why my guild is leaving Destro

I guess Order can need some more patriots. Destruction has the numbers anyway most of the time.

[Krulgu]

we can speak of the fact of mara need one tactic for have stats improvement in stance where SW stance include stats improvement or i something else not real for order ??

[Manatikik]

we can speak of the fact of mara need one tactic for have stats improvement in stance where SW stance include stats improvement or i something else not real for order ??

SW gets nominal stats and Mara gets procs. Why is it so hard for people to understand trade offs for balance?

[Krulgu]

sure thing is better have 25% chance proc one attack with damage bonus than 120 str and WS , double your armor,parry +10% ,autoattack damage boost by 65 % and 25% chance to proc 35% haste on auto attack ... dunno if i will choose the mara proc you see ??? i think one of this two stanc is a bit superior at the other no ??

sw has stats improv AND proc .... perhaps you prefer up thougness AND 5% crit chance ??? dunno choose your stance in sw just for compare ....

[Manatikik]

sure thing is better have 25% chance proc one attack with damage bonus than 120 str and WS , double your armor,parry +10% ,autoattack damage boost by 65 % and 25% chance to proc 35% haste on auto attack ... dunno if i will choose the mara proc you see ??? i think one of this two stanc is a bit superior at the other no ??

sw has stats improv AND proc .... perhaps you prefer up thougness AND 5% crit chance ??? dunno choose your stance in sw just for compare ....

Well the newly added AA proc is to make up for the fact you only have one 1h; the 10% parry is for the same reason. Also double armor is waaaay worse than completely ignoring all armor pen; so Mara and MSH are the only two classes that can't say **** to ASW.

Mara players are just naturally whiney i guess.