Fort Tracking One Month In

[sjemen]

Play destro, push up to last zone, relog to order, get some contribution, go fort. Get roll for bags and +5 crests. Profit!

+1

[emiliorv]

The meta was willfully changed to match the Order gameplay, so this effect is totally intended. The new meta is on order classes => organized guilds move to new meta...its not hard to understand (isnt rocket science...you know)

You probably shouldn't speak as an authority on things that you're not. Balance doesn't work like this, there isn't some hidden or open bias behind changes to affect RvR outcomes, it's simply not a goal we have.

Sorry but, where you get im speaking as an autority?? Like everyone else we are writing about here (I mean players, not team members), I speak from my own perception of the game as a player (i guess it's obvious).

I wasn't referring to the team having a predilection for one of the two factions, probably not. But that doesn't change the fact that many changes were made to favor one faction over another.
I insist, I say it from my point of view as a player ... I never proclaim myself an expert in anything, nor do I expect my opinions to be above of anyone else.

[wargrimnir]

The meta was willfully changed to match the Order gameplay, so this effect is totally intended. The new meta is on order classes => organized guilds move to new meta...its not hard to understand (isnt rocket science...you know)

You probably shouldn't speak as an authority on things that you're not. Balance doesn't work like this, there isn't some hidden or open bias behind changes to affect RvR outcomes, it's simply not a goal we have.

Sorry but, where you get im speaking as an autority?? Like everyone else we are writing about here (I mean players, not team members), I speak from my own perception of the game as a player (i guess it's obvious).

I wasn't referring to the team having a predilection for one of the two factions, probably not. But that doesn't change the fact that many changes were made to favor one faction over another.
I insist, I say it from my point of view as a player ... I never proclaim myself an expert in anything, nor do I expect my opinions to be above of anyone else.

You are making authoritative statements. This assumes the you have a source that supports them, which would be some kind of response from a team member that informs your statement. I know this isn't the case because balance doesn't operate on that level. In fact, the meta was not willfully changed from a balance perspective, nor are balance changes made to favor one faction or another.

A small way to rephrase these is simply removing the authoritative parts of the sentence so it appears to be more an opinion of your own, or an objective fact, rather than an incorrect inference that is counter to our stated design goals. Or, if it is an exception to those goals, at least be clear about what change you're trying to reference.

The meta changed to match the Order gameplay.

doesn't change the fact that many changes were made that i believe favored one faction over another.

It doesn't help that the statement you were replying to in the first place was similar in its assumptions.

The meta and how the devs wanted the game to play out shifted away from the class balance/tactics Destro was using.

It's impossible to tell when or what meta he's talking about, you didn't quote that part of his statement if it existed. The example I can think of that might fit was the morale dump changes. Those can be explicitly linked to things that developers have talked about wanting to suppress as that style of gameplay really waters down the effectiveness of classes to whether or not they have a high damage aoe morale. However, leaving statements up to imagination allows people to fill in whatever example best supports their own interpretation of whatever point you were trying to make.

Lacking that context, this statement appears to support that some general undefined meta (fill in the blank with your own conspiracy) was intentionally shifted to Order, which would imply some bias by devs to intentionally change the tide of RvR. That sort of thing is not a goal or responsibility of the balance team, realm balance is a much larger result of organization and population numbers than individual class balance. Also, I demonstrated in a thread not too long ago that even taking the most beneficial order buffs and most impactful destro nerfs over the past 4 months or so wouldn't have made much of a difference as they weren't particularly targeted at any perceived realm strengths anyway. When you add back in the inverse (destro buffs, order nerfs) it would have been a wash. The things changing lately have been relatively minor and generally go both ways.

If anything, the more frequently a narrative that "devs don't listen to Realm X", the less likely players are going to play on Realm X if the perception is they're being treated unfairly. The significant impact of numbers/organization will matter less if people stop showing up to your realm. These narratives again, aren't true. We do go through a lot of feedback, we do listen, the dissonance is that some players aren't getting what they specifically want, and spreading the narrative that we don't listen in turn is actively hurting their realm on top of it.

A more insidious take on narratives like this is that they might actually be spread by the dominating realm as an objective look at the stated goals of balance, and the actual changes made in response to drama, reinforce that no matter what level of noise you generate on the forums it's rather unlikely to generate balance changes right away. So the dominating realm can complain for these changes, rouse up some rabble about unfairness, and in turn demoralize a realm that would otherwise be able to win based on factors that aren't particularly related to balance in the first place.

Anyway, I just thought the way you were mentioning these things was a bit off. Not that you're remotely the worst offender or anything.

/tinfoil

[Parallels66]

you would actually be suprised how little slayer/BW players there actually are on order, i know alot of guilds are really trying to recruit more because of how little people play those classes, i know from the order guild im in, we have an average of 30~ players on at a time not including alliance and maybe have 1-2 slayers/BW mains.

if your guild refuse to play the best dps in game dont change the fact that they are the best dps in game...

maybe you didnt actually read what i wrote. let me retype it for you. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED HOW LITTLE SLAYER/BW PLAYERS THERE ARE. that has literally 0 relevance on "if my guild refuses to use them" which for one if you read my post you would understand isnt the case, its the case barely anyone plays those **** classes so its damn near impossible to recruit them, even if they are the best dps classes if the majority of players arent playing them i would use basic logic of "oh, barely anyone plays this class, its probably not the deciding factor as to why my faction sucks ass at forts." in a typical order fort, you will be lucky to see maybe 5-6 slayers and 5-6 BW, 90% of the rDPS in forts will either be engy/SW and 90% of the mDPS will be WL, hell on average you probably see more wrath WP than slayers in forts.

[Abe]

Play destro, push up to last zone, relog to order, get some contribution, go fort. Get roll for bags and +5 crests. Profit!

+1 yep, pretty nice setup

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

You probably shouldn't speak as an authority on things that you're not. Balance doesn't work like this, there isn't some hidden or open bias behind changes to affect RvR outcomes, it's simply not a goal we have.

Sorry but, where you get im speaking as an autority?? Like everyone else we are writing about here (I mean players, not team members), I speak from my own perception of the game as a player (i guess it's obvious).

I wasn't referring to the team having a predilection for one of the two factions, probably not. But that doesn't change the fact that many changes were made to favor one faction over another.
I insist, I say it from my point of view as a player ... I never proclaim myself an expert in anything, nor do I expect my opinions to be above of anyone else.

You are making authoritative statements. This assumes the you have a source that supports them, which would be some kind of response from a team member that informs your statement. I know this isn't the case because balance doesn't operate on that level. In fact, the meta was not willfully changed from a balance perspective, nor are balance changes made to favor one faction or another.

A small way to rephrase these is simply removing the authoritative parts of the sentence so it appears to be more an opinion of your own, or an objective fact, rather than an incorrect inference that is counter to our stated design goals. Or, if it is an exception to those goals, at least be clear about what change you're trying to reference.

The meta changed to match the Order gameplay.

doesn't change the fact that many changes were made that i believe favored one faction over another.

It doesn't help that the statement you were replying to in the first place was similar in its assumptions.

The meta and how the devs wanted the game to play out shifted away from the class balance/tactics Destro was using.

It's impossible to tell when or what meta he's talking about, you didn't quote that part of his statement if it existed. The example I can think of that might fit was the morale dump changes. Those can be explicitly linked to things that developers have talked about wanting to suppress as that style of gameplay really waters down the effectiveness of classes to whether or not they have a high damage aoe morale. However, leaving statements up to imagination allows people to fill in whatever example best supports their own interpretation of whatever point you were trying to make.

Lacking that context, this statement appears to support that some general undefined meta (fill in the blank with your own conspiracy) was intentionally shifted to Order, which would imply some bias by devs to intentionally change the tide of RvR. That sort of thing is not a goal or responsibility of the balance team, realm balance is a much larger result of organization and population numbers than individual class balance. Also, I demonstrated in a thread not too long ago that even taking the most beneficial order buffs and most impactful destro nerfs over the past 4 months or so wouldn't have made much of a difference as they weren't particularly targeted at any perceived realm strengths anyway. When you add back in the inverse (destro buffs, order nerfs) it would have been a wash. The things changing lately have been relatively minor and generally go both ways.

If anything, the more frequently a narrative that "devs don't listen to Realm X", the less likely players are going to play on Realm X if the perception is they're being treated unfairly. The significant impact of numbers/organization will matter less if people stop showing up to your realm. These narratives again, aren't true. We do go through a lot of feedback, we do listen, the dissonance is that some players aren't getting what they specifically want, and spreading the narrative that we don't listen in turn is actively hurting their realm on top of it.

A more insidious take on narratives like this is that they might actually be spread by the dominating realm as an objective look at the stated goals of balance, and the actual changes made in response to drama, reinforce that no matter what level of noise you generate on the forums it's rather unlikely to generate balance changes right away. So the dominating realm can complain for these changes, rouse up some rabble about unfairness, and in turn demoralize a realm that would otherwise be able to win based on factors that aren't particularly related to balance in the first place.

Anyway, I just thought the way you were mentioning these things was a bit off. Not that you're remotely the worst offender or anything.

/tinfoil

Im sorry if my post isnt grammatically correct, im spanish and my use of english sometimes is far to be perfect...that differences you find in the way to write these (personal) opinions dont exist to me, my level of english is not enough to find them.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

you would actually be suprised how little slayer/BW players there actually are on order, i know alot of guilds are really trying to recruit more because of how little people play those classes, i know from the order guild im in, we have an average of 30~ players on at a time not including alliance and maybe have 1-2 slayers/BW mains.

if your guild refuse to play the best dps in game dont change the fact that they are the best dps in game...

maybe you didnt actually read what i wrote. let me retype it for you. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED HOW LITTLE SLAYER/BW PLAYERS THERE ARE. that has literally 0 relevance on "if my guild refuses to use them" which for one if you read my post you would understand isnt the case, its the case barely anyone plays those **** classes so its damn near impossible to recruit them, even if they are the best dps classes if the majority of players arent playing them i would use basic logic of "oh, barely anyone plays this class, its probably not the deciding factor as to why my faction sucks ass at forts." in a typical order fort, you will be lucky to see maybe 5-6 slayers and 5-6 BW, 90% of the rDPS in forts will either be engy/SW and 90% of the mDPS will be WL, hell on average you probably see more wrath WP than slayers in forts.

I talked about your guild because probably you as a player are not aware of what is happening in the whole realm along the 24h of the day...so really you are speaking of YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE that can be totally different from the reality of other ppl in your own realm in other timezones for example. Or something simply of guilds have a fixed roster with their own slayers/bw, these will not join any pug wb or join another guild since are part of a fixed roster.

i have faced guild wbs (in city and in ORVR) with 4 slayers (stacks of BWs was more usually some months before), so if a guild can field 4 slayers of a total 24 players means that the issue you are talking about doesnt affect the wole realm...

[Sybreal]

Anyway, I just thought the way you were mentioning these things was a bit off. Not that you're remotely the worst offender or anything.

Sorry if I was a bit vague or unclear.
My intent was to say: "The devs change the game. It happened, it's going to happen again. The result of change can be a shift in how people PvP. There is always a metagame. Some adapt, some don't."

I didn't mean to say the dev team changed the game to favor one side or another, just that the game changed.

[Exot]

The time of changes has come.

[empmoz]

Destro confirmed big noobs, buff order and replace destro side with pve mobs