do we have a balance problem?

[Gurf]

One of the main problems with the cooldown reducer issue is that AM and Shadow Warrior need a Sword Master in their group with Whispering Wind to stand half a chance of performing to a decent level in City. Without it they will struggle to keep up. Swordmasters are the least played of all tanks while Black Ork is the second most popular (from stats I saw in September). The Black Ork reducer is easier to apply and they also have the Choppa one available, so basically Destro never struggle with this issue. So not only are AM and SW gimped from the start compared to their Destro mirrors they are double gimped from the fact that it is so hard for them to play with the cooldown decreaser they need to perform.

If Destro have two versions of the reducer then Order should have one more aoe increaser for balance, but they don't , Squig Herder got the increaser too.

[VindicoAtrum]

Already dreaming of the day I can go see t2 instead of wasting 50 minutes for 3-5 royals.

You know you can get those 3 royals from keep or zone bag, right? Nothing's stopping you from enjoying T2

3 royals in gold bag (which you only get every 5-6 zones with very good contrib) or guaranteed 3, easy chance at more.... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Charon]

SMs can take up to 7-10 seconds to get CD reducer going => SM dont have the ability to change plan/stance like BO?? i think so...dont spread misinformation, or at least learn the basics before claim for balance...

Even mediocre BO and SM players know you can stance dance to get to perfect balance before you get the first hit off. Stop saying "It takes multiple hits to get WW off" just cause you have never played the class past tier 1 and are looking it up on career builder. In an imperfect beginning clash where you are suddenly jumped on by the enemy you hit stance dance, (improved balance ability), then WW. At most its one global cooldown before WW is off. Its not the end of the world.

I am complete dog turds on my SM and even I can pull it off.

To be fair, the SM cd reducer is to restrictive imo. If the sm get punted in a bad place, central BO in altdorf for instance, it can for sure take 7-10 seconds until you reach an opponent and get it off. A BO would just pop waaagh from below. Similarly, a BO can provide cd reducers against a kiting enemy etc.

The problem for SM is not first ww rotation but next one especially in hard fight and if you are in 2xsm pt for very special build /pt composition - its normal in heavy fight that i cannot pop my part of ww sequence because i canot hit any one (after cc/slow/ no proper target in range). BO and Choppa does not have this problem they just pop it in right moment.

What is more order need to stack 2 sm to have the same effect like 2 bo /2 choppas /choppa + bo which is easy and very common option for destro. BO is best tank in the game and Chopa is still very easy to find. SM is least common tank at order bc aesthetic and in fact hard, not intuitive stance dance mechanic (and 2h sm sucks in end game).

BTW secondary effect of WAGGH is strong enough for single tc and now add the cooldown decrese effect of it. This makes WAAAAGH one of strongest if not op tc in the game. Azrael created it as a somehow means to balance chosen nerf ( chosen lost old tc that decreased dmg after crit ..i lost the name) and creation of Racking talon for SM. But Chosen now again has its tc so there is question if BO should still keep it WAAAGH in qurent form

[Sundowner]

Do I remember correctly that both order and destro have one aoe cd increaser (sl and sh), but destro has 2 decreasers while order has 1?

[emiliorv]

Thing is when Order dominated RvR a few months back the best they got was 50% City win rate, maybe once or twice 55%. I didn't see them get 70% even once let alone anywhere near 100%. When they got just 50% win rate is when loads of people started to complain about Slayers, that is how sad it is, in 9 months of game time I had been playing Order got the slight upper hand once in that time and people starting out crying out for nerfs straight away like it was a crisis. But now Destro are getting 100% wins and regular 80% wins "everything is fine" "get good"

Order dominated ORVR => but when campaing hit IC loads of xrealmers logged into destro toons...so you lose that advantage when talking about city.

loads of people started to complain about Slayers => ppl started to complain about slayers when proper wbs started to play them properly and stacking them beacuse are stupidily op and its a **** pain to counter a stack of slayers (and still looks like order refuse to play them). its normal and will happen again if order start to play their best clases properly...

[Sundowner]

Thing is when Order dominated RvR a few months back the best they got was 50% City win rate, maybe once or twice 55%. I didn't see them get 70% even once let alone anywhere near 100%. When they got just 50% win rate is when loads of people started to complain about Slayers, that is how sad it is, in 9 months of game time I had been playing Order got the slight upper hand once in that time and people starting out crying out for nerfs straight away like it was a crisis. But now Destro are getting 100% wins and regular 80% wins "everything is fine" "get good"

Order dominated ORVR => but when campaing hit IC loads of xrealmers logged into destro toons...so you lose that advantage when talking about city.

loads of people started to complain about Slayers => ppl started to complain about slayers when proper wbs started to play them properly and stacking them beacuse are stupidily op and its a **** pain to counter a stack of slayers (and still looks like order refuse to play them). its normal and will happen again if order start to play their best clases properly...

Again, we don't want 3 overperforming heroes, we need more classes to viable, as is the case with destro.

[Gurf]

Thing is when Order dominated RvR a few months back the best they got was 50% City win rate, maybe once or twice 55%. I didn't see them get 70% even once let alone anywhere near 100%. When they got just 50% win rate is when loads of people started to complain about Slayers, that is how sad it is, in 9 months of game time I had been playing Order got the slight upper hand once in that time and people starting out crying out for nerfs straight away like it was a crisis. But now Destro are getting 100% wins and regular 80% wins "everything is fine" "get good"

Order dominated ORVR => but when campaing hit IC loads of xrealmers logged into destro toons...so you lose that advantage when talking about city.

loads of people started to complain about Slayers => ppl started to complain about slayers when proper wbs started to play them properly and stacking them beacuse are stupidily op and its a **** pain to counter a stack of slayers (and still looks like order refuse to play them). its normal and will happen again if order start to play their best clases properly...

While Order can all play and stack their best classes its not a good solution, not everyone wants to play Slayer. Playing Slayer/Choppa is actually pretty boring, you pretty much just mash a few buttons keeping half an eye on your rage/health, you barely even need to select good targets.

[NSKaneda]

Do I remember correctly that both order and destro have one aoe cd increaser (sl and sh), but destro has 2 decreasers while order has 1?

Order increasers:
Slayer
IB

Interrupt/set back (counter to decreaser):
KOTBS
Engie

Decreaser:
SM

Plus surprise morale pumps&drains, AA increasers, CC group immunities...

There's a reason why order has more drains and des decreasers

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Thing is when Order dominated RvR a few months back the best they got was 50% City win rate, maybe once or twice 55%. I didn't see them get 70% even once let alone anywhere near 100%. When they got just 50% win rate is when loads of people started to complain about Slayers, that is how sad it is, in 9 months of game time I had been playing Order got the slight upper hand once in that time and people starting out crying out for nerfs straight away like it was a crisis. But now Destro are getting 100% wins and regular 80% wins "everything is fine" "get good"

Order dominated ORVR => but when campaing hit IC loads of xrealmers logged into destro toons...so you lose that advantage when talking about city.

loads of people started to complain about Slayers => ppl started to complain about slayers when proper wbs started to play them properly and stacking them beacuse are stupidily op and its a **** pain to counter a stack of slayers (and still looks like order refuse to play them). its normal and will happen again if order start to play their best clases properly...

Again, we don't want 3 overperforming heroes, we need more classes to viable, as is the case with destro.

If the situation was order got more viable classes and destro the most ovetuned classes you will come here to clain exactly the contrary...(because destro will play their best classes for sure)

[emiliorv]

Swordmasters are the least played of all tanks

again, order refuse to play what they need....but after refuse to play the only CD decreaser you got come to forum to clain for imbalances...