T2

[ficklefetus]

Not only is 100v100 mass combat garbage devoid of any strategy....

definitely won't argue with this, but then I really hope

... break up zergs.

you actually manage to do this.

100v10 is fun for nobody.

[Ungrin]

Maybe along with the AAO boost to renown gain, the side that is outnumbered also has a stat boost as well? It would make the fights more fair, even if you have less people you could take on more people. This way, it would help break up zergs, keep people fighting, and incentivize more equal fights.

I wouldn't give an insane stat boost, noticeable, but not extreme to the point where 1 guy can take on 10 by himself.

[Tesq]

(skip to summary if you do not want read all)

As i said you cannot lock with out skirmish if you move as zerg and have no enemy you will lock nothing.
Not said that skirmish system can't be improved but it's a start, let's say skirmish point done in a zone wile too much aao do not count and here we are )
This work until the population in a zone drop or enemy refuse to fight so a timer to lock after you controll all bo+keeps came in help (1.3.8 if not mistake set a timer in t4 cos zone were unlockable with no skirmish). If you manage to zerg 1 zone and wanna wait 20 min, other ppl can do the same with 2 zone spread their forces.

-But this could lead (hardly btw) sometimes to empty zone.
-You need some reward ( but no more aao and no more renow /influence please)

You need a reward that can only be taken by lock 2/3 zone, what if we could provide some istance as end game for t2 and t3 like capitals? So make the rvr set drop there instead. Only the side that lock 2/3 zone would have acces there. T2-T3 offer no real challenge to equip yourself, i mean equip can even been a little hard to take but until is not long and not require farm, offer some challenge could be cool. Don't have to be a hard istance, You could use skaven sc and tanquol incursion (they are both big place)

If ppl want the best equip they need to organize better the lock strategise, also this make new ppl understant how they should work for t4.

summary:
-VP lock system changed to have skirmish mandatory for lock
-Skirmish do not give VP if there is or there is too much aao
-lock system changed as if one have all the BOs + keeps after X min the zone auto lock (like 1.3.8)

Addition solution:
-Give rewards to lock 2/3 zone or make a final istance where the reward need to be dropped but only who controll 2/3 zone can enter.

Conseguences:
You are forced to not zerg or you cannot lock, ppl can spread, fight even otunumbered but not fear to give easy VP to enemys. Also this ecourage to spread over 3 zone, It also make a limit to empty zone as if there are no enemy to skirmish with, you still earn renow but you cannot fast lock.( The timer should set not less than 20-30 min, every time a flag get tap /conquered, timer vanish.)

[Bozzax]

Guys guys

The zerg monster forms when one sides gets greater numbers and it feeds of effortless renown ticks (for all). Anything that feeds effortlessly grow. When people finally tire after hours of feeding the zerg monster "die"

Solution is to starve the ugly zerg monster to death.

So in a zerg situation attackers should get reduced rewards and defenders increased rewards and extra help as long as they actively defend.

That can be

• Defense ticks in keeps or at BOs (small periodic ones are better)
  AAO (remember though 0 x somthin is still 0)
  Moved flag to top floor
  Defenders buff
  Better guards
  More guards

Well you get it the point is making joining the zerg less attractive and defending more attractive (when significantly outnumbered)

[Tesq]

bozzax this is stuff that need anyway to be put int game but i see these things only able to help substain the keep def and not divide the zerg.

Even if you give them less renow, zerg and take 1 zone by 1 is better than spread in multiple zone and loose other lock, you simply gave them less renow but they still will zerg, this will only encourage the zerg, cos or you zerg and win or you fight equal and have the chance to loose.
Also ppl from other pairing have the right to take the lock of 1 zone cos all ppl in each pairing fight for 1 random of those to lock, whatever lock first all should be able to go there, if you make aao influence the renow you gain by keep or even lock you will end with only unhappy ppl.
Vice versa give more renow while def based on aao only help those small and pro party that use that to level faster.
I found that war history show as it work quite bad give more renow as reward to do something, ppl always find the way to exploit it.

[Aquilon]

WAR is based on the concept of "progression". And this is the root of all evil.
Zealously sticking to it makes major flaws unsolvable.

But, in an attempt to create "continuous environment" in WAR following steps could be taken :

1). All skills from level 1. Except mastery, probably. (Why? a). To suffer not from "skill loss" under debolster. b). More tactics and variety in all tiers. c). "But, but how about newcomers? " Have balls. Nothing. Care about noobs leads to degradation. Remeber Mass Effet 2-3, anyone? d). Characters are not f. conscripts.)

2). Global pvp-currency. Wait, wait! It's already there. So, amount of currency dropped should be based not on victims level, but on killers (t4 toon should get a couple of thousand recruit medallions in t1 or something, and so on). SIngle highest level shares this bonus with a party.

3). Major debolster for stats, gear, skill power and crowd control duration. Different in all tiers. Without abilities cut off. New toons can have advantage of full time of crowd control duration (possibly).

4). AAO without renown bonus, but with significant stats buff for Order side exclusively. Single Order versus dess wb should be able to take at least half of it down, I would say. (Why? a). For the Greater Justice! b). Dess always cry too much. c). Seriously though, during WAR's history on official servers it was 80% (90%?) of the time dess zerg. You dare to ask why? d). Different players mentality: solo heros vs crowd.)

[Ototo]

WAR is based on the concept of "progression". And this is the root of all evil.
Zealously sticking to it makes major flaws unsolvable.

But, in an attempt to create "continuous environment" in WAR following steps could be taken :

1). All skills from level 1. Except mastery, probably. (Why? a). To suffer not from "skill loss" under debolster. b). More tactics and variety in all tiers. c). "But, but how about newcomers? " Have balls. Nothing. Care about noobs leads to degradation. Remeber Mass Effet 2-3, anyone? d). Characters are not f. conscripts.)

(...)

I actually like an agree with this part. If this happens, then there is no problem to implement a multi-tier system. All people can silence, disarm, CC, AoE, AoEheal, etc....

[Bozzax]

bozzax this is stuff that need anyway to be put int game but i see these things only able to help substain the keep def and not divide the zerg.

Spoiler:

Even if you give them less renow, zerg and take 1 zone by 1 is better than spread in multiple zone and loose other lock, you simply gave them less renow but they still will zerg, this will only encourage the zerg, cos or you zerg and win or you fight equal and have the chance to loose.
Also ppl from other pairing have the right to take the lock of 1 zone cos all ppl in each pairing fight for 1 random of those to lock, whatever lock first all should be able to go there, if you make aao influence the renow you gain by keep or even lock you will end with only unhappy ppl.
Vice versa give more renow while def based on aao only help those small and pro party that use that to level faster.
I found that war history show as it work quite bad give more renow as reward to do something, ppl always find the way to exploit it.

I promote a system that reward an outnumbered side and punishes a blob. Doing so auto balances the realms and zones.

(To be honest I don’t care much about the unhappiness of the zerg)

The zerg exists only as long as there is a reliable flow of renown. If you want to break up the zerg you need to cut that flow of renown, simple as that. AAO should be used to scale up rewards but more importantly to scale down rewards.

(Yes I want people to log the other side or at least not change side to the blob)

Multiple zones or not isn’t so much of a problem at all but BIG presence-capture-ticks are. If all renown rewards would be small localized pulses you would have to be active and present to gain renown.

(Thus in one swipe lock-zerging, leech-zooning and wc-banner-leeching becomes pointless)

A BO for example would periodically pulse* X renown to eligible attackers** and eligible defenders***

Similarly, a keep could periodically pulse X renown to eligible defenders** when they are outnumbered and more will join to defend

Instead of “rewarding presence” Keep/Zone/Fort/City capture yield renown only based on
• how much time you have been in combat in that zone
• how much time you have spent taking / defending BOs
• how much time you have spent taking / defending Keeps

Again there are other ways but this in my opinon attacks the root problems.

* A pulse would give <current cap reward> / <phase duration> * <time between pulses> as 50 feet AOE
** You receive the renown if you’ve done damage, receive damage or healed since last pulse
*** defenders are eligible as long as they are present

[Tesq]

I think is a bit hard to implement bozzax, you should find a correct ammount to give (not too much high) and ppl could exploit easily a system like that in different ways.
If you reward ppl for being in combat 2 ppl can simply damage and kill each other near a flag for power lvling. That's why renow is give only after kill and not while being present somewhere or only by doing damage. Then think to multiple pulse with aao, definetly too much easily renow here. I think you have not preset some kind of ppl present on war. Dev should monitor 100% the time ppl near flags, i dont think this is possible.

[Bozzax]

If you reward ppl for being in combat 2 ppl can simply damage and kill each other near a flag for power lvling.

Do you think power levelling in obscure hidden area is different, or duel levelling in lake? At least on BOs others are guaranteed to show up and **** it up for you as BOs lights up on map

That's why renow is give only after kill and not while being present somewhere or only by doing damage. Then think to
multiple pulse with aao, definetly too much easily renow here.

Not really there are no multiple pulses just ONE near BOs or Keeps. If you would have read carefully you would notice max total gain from BO pulses would be exactly the same amount as current capture tick. So same amount spread over time and it replaces capture ticks. AAO modifications apply equally to pulses or ticks so no issue.

The best part IMHO is any side taking a last stand get rewarded for as long as you live

I think you have not preset some kind of ppl present on war. Dev should monitor 100% the time ppl near flags, i dont think this is possible

This is a non problem as players from both sides converge on BOs. You simply won't be alone here and you won't be able to systematically exploit it. Going to an remote area and set up a RR farm is much more reliable and profitable or simply "duel farm" in lake