Total lack of WH versatility

[dirnsterer]

Would rather see PA become an armor debuff or a unique "debuff enemy physical mitigation by -25%" - given to WH as well, RB parry buff can be reworked into some other tactic in the left tree and maybe get better uptime with maybe just +50% parry buff.

Another issue is having your class mobility tied to midtree Elixir and having your crit rely on right tree crit tactic.
Ideally both WE/WH would get crit tactic into core arsenal, or even better have increased crit/modifier become core aspect of the career mechanic, either crit increase from building bloodlust or a lingering crit buff from having used finisher.

Honestly at this point I'd even trade Stealth mechanic away to get medium armor - since apart from ganking people in 1v1, you don't have much time using your "unique career resource" in anything organized, stealth does close to nothing in forts and in cities you move as meleetrain which does not take breaks waiting for the WE/WH to re-stealth.

WE/WH should be the ultimate healer bully, something that poses a real threat to even maxarmored Sov BIS geared healers who normally just detaunt and /lol back at you.
I'm not saying "gib more dmg", rather rework the current tools and ensure that the tools given lead to the results intended with the original class design; healer begging for help from allies and dying if not aided within first 4-8seconds of being assaulted by a WE/WH.

Can sort of agree with this, either make their armor ignoring serious threat or dangerous heal debuffing ability that can be kept up. WH is also on the dire state mostly because the side they play on, line up all the mdps classes of order and try to justify picking WH over slayer in any situation, single target or aoe. I would even argue slayers with their toolkit, some gear setup and stupid high parry from sheer weaponskill + riposte will pull solo roaming better off than WH, maybe even more armor ignore overall. Only situation I might think of is cheese M4 healdebuff where they come on top.

[Hienzwar]

Nice ,the post turned into a we/wh topic when the issues is only with the wh .

This will continue to rumble on and on and on......

Still failing to see any real issue other then serious wb functionality but even that you can make work.

Go away with this toxic post, you have to agree, that they are unplayable, yes or yes?

Come on buttercup people are allowed to have a different view.

Have to agree? No I really do not, as I and others have stated the class is situational and not a direct mirror to WE, please continue to ignore if its easier but don't take offence as lot of what has been said on this thread is basically give us X, Y and Z with little or no consideration for how that plays out with the ability set of the class. Yes some of the suggestions would be great but I haven't seen many put through a recommendation to the dev's.

Plenty of evidence to show the class is playable and fun, I'm sorry that some cant kill a dps shammy while wearing vanq but I am a poor to average player and find most 1v1's and group fights accessible with a lot of kills and I win more then I loose - so again no not "pretty unplayable" at all.

You have to agree, yes/yes?

[Sinisterror]

Increase Bullet durations to 7 seconds instead of 5 and bleeding edge to 4 seconds + 66 % because its not additive. Also change death/confession kiss/bullet to 50 % inc heal debuff. Sanctified oil/Elixir of shadows to core and to replace them with shadowstep;) It is stupid when you start to compare what melee asw can do and have, shadowstep to wh/we and take pounce away from sh. Change punish the false/black lotus blade to 6 second debuff that does spirit/corpo dmg when healed and + 1 second cast time increase on everything, melee, potions, morales, like everything. No cooldown.

Make Bullets be able to crit!!! AND remove icd from kisses but no crit chance. Change Septic blade/Full confession tactics to make envemoled blade and fervor dot part to ignore all resistances and make the skill 20 feet aoe with the tactics also. This is no way op but will help tremendozly to do some kind of aoe build if used with slice/razor tactic but still no where near what " real aoe " dd can do. My rank 37 slayer can do over 2k crits dual wielding. I cant do 2k with crits my we/wh (except burn awy lies final tick)

[Aurandilaz]

easy ideas for improvement;

Healdebuff Kiss/Bullet is now -75%, completely unique and on a tier higher than other outgoing healdebuffs in game; if healer does not get outside help, their own heals will not be able to keep them alive against WE/Wh dmg
Init Kiss/Bullet has now base value of 80 and scales with mastery up to 120 (vs current 50 to 80), make it actually hurt against classes that have low initial INIT values.
bump AP steal Kiss/Bullet from 20 AP up to 25, not a massive buff


make ST Silence into a 5s Silence and have it only grant immunity for 15 or 20 sec, normally you just KD targets since Silence is inferior as it allows victim to keep fleeing. Make it worth giving up KD use and use Silence instead when dealing with magic casters/healers - have the ability also fill the role of a "Execute" which has +25% dmg gain and will always crit if target is below 25% HP, dmg compontent will no longer require positional check.


retune melee disarm, up to 5s duration and only giving 15-20sec immunity, it also should be better alternative vs using KD against every target. Duelling a WE/Wh should be painful and challenge for other melee fighters/tanks.


Slice/Razor, grant this ability 25% armor ignore (same as KOTB precision strike has) - it costs more AP than Torment/AW spam, and its located in an "offspec" tree (with WE needing mid for mobility and right for crit and not really needing left tree).


All Elixirs/Relics down to 30 sec cooldown, the class should not need to operate on a 60s cooldown cycle, when other classes do not need to wait 60s before being able to re-engage with their buffs no more on cooldown.



WH - Seekers Triumph tactic - Seekers Blade now has 20s CD but gives you a +30% parry buff for next 10 seconds (10 uptime 20s cd) [having about 70-80% parry should be more than enough based on being able to reach base parry of 50 + 30% from this tactic]

reworking Pierce Armor/Repel Blasphemy:
Ignore targets armor, 10s CD; increase your armor pen by 25% for 10s (instead of old parry/WS buffs to self)

Bleeding Edge/Blessed Blade; remove old effect, new; your critical rate is increased by 3% per finisher point used (from 3 up to 15%) when using a finisher, 5s uptime after using a finisher. [mimics old Frenzied Mayhem, except now you need to use Finisher to get that crit and not avoid using finisher to have crit]


None of these are massively increasing their dmg, but these ideas would boost the value of WE/WH and make them into a severe threat on a battlefield, whether threatening healers with Silences and healdebuffs, or disarming melee or duelling high armor targets.

Especially WH, a light armor, high risk class, should not be considered 4th best melee DPS on order side, which is a joke considering the faction starts with 3 melee classes.

[Sulorie]

This will continue to rumble on and on and on......

Still failing to see any real issue other then serious wb functionality but even that you can make work.

Go away with this toxic post, you have to agree, that they are unplayable, yes or yes?

Come on buttercup people are allowed to have a different view.

Have to agree? No I really do not, as I and others have stated the class is situational and not a direct mirror to WE, please continue to ignore if its easier but don't take offence as lot of what has been said on this thread is basically give us X, Y and Z with little or no consideration for how that plays out with the ability set of the class. Yes some of the suggestions would be great but I haven't seen many put through a recommendation to the dev's.

Plenty of evidence to show the class is playable and fun, I'm sorry that some cant kill a dps shammy while wearing vanq but I am a poor to average player and find most 1v1's and group fights accessible with a lot of kills and I win more then I loose - so again no not "pretty unplayable" at all.

You have to agree, yes/yes?

The irony flew way over your head, mate.

[Sulorie]

My rank 37 slayer can do over 2k crits dual wielding. I cant do 2k with crits my we/wh (except burn awy lies final tick)

What you are hitting and what skill is it? I doubt bolster matters anything on that rank and I don't see endgame gear slayers doing such single hits being dual wield.

[jughurta]

my proposal for WE/WH

autobump passif buff reduc damage for the leap duration 2s maximum buff the same grimnir shield because detaunt autobump is impossible you are died

incognito and shadow prowler when finish for nothing or opening have 4 secondes immun cc passif ( not for elixir of shadow and sanctified oil)

disrupt and armor pen 30s CD no longer share the same CD as the vanish ( vanish up to 1min 15)

cast time incognito and prowler 2s is too long 1s or 1,25 s

incognito / prowler have a duration 1min 10 but you can take AP potion before open

tactique 50% damage crit add 20% crit on execution . no channel and no dot
for WH absolution , exit wound, cannon dragon
for WH on your knees , heart render , puncture

And priority a debuff city and sc . Aoe cap diminshing to 6 or 9 max . so that all classes have their place but not just aoe spam

bonus speed with execution

tactic close combat passif WE/WH .

it may seem huge but given the up of the SH

[Arcrival]

It’s awesome people are coming up with suggestions but remember you have to submit them in the gameplay and balance discussion thread which I hope some of you do

[Hienzwar]

Go away with this toxic post, you have to agree, that they are unplayable, yes or yes?

Come on buttercup people are allowed to have a different view.

Have to agree? No I really do not, as I and others have stated the class is situational and not a direct mirror to WE, please continue to ignore if its easier but don't take offence as lot of what has been said on this thread is basically give us X, Y and Z with little or no consideration for how that plays out with the ability set of the class. Yes some of the suggestions would be great but I haven't seen many put through a recommendation to the dev's.

Plenty of evidence to show the class is playable and fun, I'm sorry that some cant kill a dps shammy while wearing vanq but I am a poor to average player and find most 1v1's and group fights accessible with a lot of kills and I win more then I loose - so again no not "pretty unplayable" at all.

You have to agree, yes/yes?

The irony flew way over your head, mate.

Absolutely did, ill get back in my cage

[abezverkhiy]

It’s awesome people are coming up with suggestions but remember you have to submit them in the gameplay and balance discussion thread which I hope some of you do

Yep but hopes are very low, Devs stated lack of resources and backlog a while ago. So we come here to whine and make long trails of tears.