do we have a balance problem?

[Arbich]

@knick we did make a post about mara nerf, and ill give you the same advice the order players gave us, just stop crying change your tactics etc.

mhm... this nerf is years ago (3 years?!) and after this mara got a significant dmg buff.

They got utility exchanged for damage, but then the damage got nerfed... If you are referring to the changes in the spring of this year.

But was this the same patch? I am old
The utility nerf was long ago and the last one was only a dmg buff (where the AoE part was removed later), not?

[teiloh]

Both.
Population problem - people want to be on the winning (stronger) side. Partial solution = nerf xrealm even more.
Balance problem - combination of abilities and skills are in favor to melee oriented playstyle (that means destruction). Solution ?? (never-ending work on balance).

A bit wrong. They are related but indirectly. If we compare 24 to 24, then the difference, if there is, is not noticeable and a good order premade has every chance wipe destroy prem. And I played in good groups in the spring and had a good result. But within six months of the latest patches, which are clearly focused on improving the quality of life of the desi characters, they simply knocked out the remnants of faith. In the morning I watched one guy on a squig from fmj, he in one person running with an elf in two minutes managed to kill 5 people without straining. And he was upset only when a whole warband caught up with him that he could not eat the killed pet. WE who hit 30 meters finishers alone, which did not exist at all, also got a pounce, this is simply anegdatic because as it turned out to them it is like a third leg. Can we give Borc a teleport? And we put up with all this because of rempage, and because these soloers do not affect rvr and stuff like that. Of course, the topic of balance is slippery and controversial. But people see the difference and make a choice not in favor of a Order that is needed like a punching bag in the city. It was not enough that I had time to lvl Lion and his testicles were cut off, so he now switched to soprano. Kobs plucked the feathers on the helmet and the midgets have generally turned into a walking decoration. Compare class toe to toe... oh, we're not comparing 1 to 1.

Since you brought up this "buff streak" argument, could make a (complete) comparative list of all the buffs that Order and Destru received over the last year?

P.S. I mean, seriously. I think a complete comparative list of buffs would be useful

Knights got nerfed to oblivion, like beaten into a bloody pulp with nerfbat.
WL nerfed hard, pet got beaten into mush after Guardian overperformed
Swordmaster nerfed (Order now has no 360 resist debuff)
AM got nerfed (Wild Healing, M1)
BW got nerfed some (Flashfire)
IB got nerfed (Gromril Plating)
SW got nerfed, and then Skirm got buffed in the review

Destro got a huge relative buff with morale build changes
BO got a huge buff with the CD reducer
Squig got huge buffs with meta/game-changing mSH changes
Mara got buffs, Thunderous Blow and Morale Drain nerfed
Zealot got a lot of one-way mirroring
DoK lost Restored Motivation, 1001k got cut down to 10 seconds and Khaine's WD no longer works on curses
Chosen got Crippling Strikes and Bane Shield nerfed


Keep in mind Destro was pretty much better in every category before all these Order nerfs, one-way mirroring and Destro buffs.

[Vri]

Just look at the issue from a lore point of view. Order has to be out numbered.

[Sundowner]

A bit wrong. They are related but indirectly. If we compare 24 to 24, then the difference, if there is, is not noticeable and a good order premade has every chance wipe destroy prem. And I played in good groups in the spring and had a good result. But within six months of the latest patches, which are clearly focused on improving the quality of life of the desi characters, they simply knocked out the remnants of faith. In the morning I watched one guy on a squig from fmj, he in one person running with an elf in two minutes managed to kill 5 people without straining. And he was upset only when a whole warband caught up with him that he could not eat the killed pet. WE who hit 30 meters finishers alone, which did not exist at all, also got a pounce, this is simply anegdatic because as it turned out to them it is like a third leg. Can we give Borc a teleport? And we put up with all this because of rempage, and because these soloers do not affect rvr and stuff like that. Of course, the topic of balance is slippery and controversial. But people see the difference and make a choice not in favor of a Order that is needed like a punching bag in the city. It was not enough that I had time to lvl Lion and his testicles were cut off, so he now switched to soprano. Kobs plucked the feathers on the helmet and the midgets have generally turned into a walking decoration. Compare class toe to toe... oh, we're not comparing 1 to 1.

Since you brought up this "buff streak" argument, could make a (complete) comparative list of all the buffs that Order and Destru received over the last year?

P.S. I mean, seriously. I think a complete comparative list of buffs would be useful

Knights got nerfed to oblivion, like beaten into a bloody pulp with nerfbat.
WL nerfed hard, pet got beaten into mush after Guardian overperformed
Swordmaster nerfed (Order now has no 360 resist debuff)
AM got nerfed (Wild Healing, M1)
BW got nerfed some (Flashfire)
IB got nerfed (Gromril Plating)
SW got nerfed, and then Skirm got buffed in the review

Destro got a huge relative buff with morale build changes
BO got a huge buff with the CD reducer
Squig got huge buffs with meta/game-changing mSH changes
Mara got buffs, Thunderous Blow and Morale Drain nerfed
Zealot got a lot of one-way mirroring
DoK lost Restored Motivation, 1001k got cut down to 10 seconds and Khaine's WD no longer works on curses
Chosen got Crippling Strikes and Bane Shield nerfed


Keep in mind Destro was pretty much better in every category before all these Order nerfs, one-way mirroring and Destro buffs.

Is this real? someone really needs to go through patch notes and create detailed log of changes.

[Ysaran]

A bit wrong. They are related but indirectly. If we compare 24 to 24, then the difference, if there is, is not noticeable and a good order premade has every chance wipe destroy prem. And I played in good groups in the spring and had a good result. But within six months of the latest patches, which are clearly focused on improving the quality of life of the desi characters, they simply knocked out the remnants of faith. In the morning I watched one guy on a squig from fmj, he in one person running with an elf in two minutes managed to kill 5 people without straining. And he was upset only when a whole warband caught up with him that he could not eat the killed pet. WE who hit 30 meters finishers alone, which did not exist at all, also got a pounce, this is simply anegdatic because as it turned out to them it is like a third leg. Can we give Borc a teleport? And we put up with all this because of rempage, and because these soloers do not affect rvr and stuff like that. Of course, the topic of balance is slippery and controversial. But people see the difference and make a choice not in favor of a Order that is needed like a punching bag in the city. It was not enough that I had time to lvl Lion and his testicles were cut off, so he now switched to soprano. Kobs plucked the feathers on the helmet and the midgets have generally turned into a walking decoration. Compare class toe to toe... oh, we're not comparing 1 to 1.

Since you brought up this "buff streak" argument, could make a (complete) comparative list of all the buffs that Order and Destru received over the last year?

P.S. I mean, seriously. I think a complete comparative list of buffs would be useful

Knights got nerfed to oblivion, like beaten into a bloody pulp with nerfbat.
WL nerfed hard, pet got beaten into mush after Guardian overperformed
Swordmaster nerfed (Order now has no 360 resist debuff)
AM got nerfed (Wild Healing, M1)
BW got nerfed some (Flashfire)
IB got nerfed (Gromril Plating)
SW got nerfed, and then Skirm got buffed in the review

Destro got a huge relative buff with morale build changes
BO got a huge buff with the CD reducer
Squig got huge buffs with meta/game-changing mSH changes
Mara got buffs, Thunderous Blow and Morale Drain nerfed
Zealot got a lot of one-way mirroring
DoK lost Restored Motivation, 1001k got cut down to 10 seconds and Khaine's WD no longer works on curses
Chosen got Crippling Strikes and Bane Shield nerfed


Keep in mind Destro was pretty much better in every category before all these Order nerfs, one-way mirroring and Destro buffs.

Yes, but that's not what I asked. Most of the change you refer to are much older then one year, so they quite don't count. Hammerhead said that Order was nerfed recently, he's not talking of 2 or 3 years old nerfs. As said by Sundowner we should have a recent nerfs/buffs list

[lyncher12]

A bit wrong. They are related but indirectly. If we compare 24 to 24, then the difference, if there is, is not noticeable and a good order premade has every chance wipe destroy prem. And I played in good groups in the spring and had a good result. But within six months of the latest patches, which are clearly focused on improving the quality of life of the desi characters, they simply knocked out the remnants of faith. In the morning I watched one guy on a squig from fmj, he in one person running with an elf in two minutes managed to kill 5 people without straining. And he was upset only when a whole warband caught up with him that he could not eat the killed pet. WE who hit 30 meters finishers alone, which did not exist at all, also got a pounce, this is simply anegdatic because as it turned out to them it is like a third leg. Can we give Borc a teleport? And we put up with all this because of rempage, and because these soloers do not affect rvr and stuff like that. Of course, the topic of balance is slippery and controversial. But people see the difference and make a choice not in favor of a Order that is needed like a punching bag in the city. It was not enough that I had time to lvl Lion and his testicles were cut off, so he now switched to soprano. Kobs plucked the feathers on the helmet and the midgets have generally turned into a walking decoration. Compare class toe to toe... oh, we're not comparing 1 to 1.

Since you brought up this "buff streak" argument, could make a (complete) comparative list of all the buffs that Order and Destru received over the last year?

P.S. I mean, seriously. I think a complete comparative list of buffs would be useful

Knights got nerfed to oblivion, like beaten into a bloody pulp with nerfbat.
WL nerfed hard, pet got beaten into mush after Guardian overperformed
Swordmaster nerfed (Order now has no 360 resist debuff)
AM got nerfed (Wild Healing, M1)
BW got nerfed some (Flashfire)
IB got nerfed (Gromril Plating)
SW got nerfed, and then Skirm got buffed in the review

Destro got a huge relative buff with morale build changes
BO got a huge buff with the CD reducer
Squig got huge buffs with meta/game-changing mSH changes
Mara got buffs, Thunderous Blow and Morale Drain nerfed
Zealot got a lot of one-way mirroring
DoK lost Restored Motivation, 1001k got cut down to 10 seconds and Khaine's WD no longer works on curses
Chosen got Crippling Strikes and Bane Shield nerfed


Keep in mind Destro was pretty much better in every category before all these Order nerfs, one-way mirroring and Destro buffs.

Crippling strikes wasn't nerfed, it was completely removed. Shadow Warrior got Ambush ( squig goo mirror) and a melee spec that made msh look like a joke. Shatter limbs and indigestion got nerfed. Shaman lost its morale drain. BO got its aoe snare nerfed, THC nerfed. RP got a (shitty) mirror of Sweeping Disgorgement. Chop fasta got a nice cooldown buff but Yer gettin soft nerfed to be useless, GTDC was also buffed to be really good. Sorc has a hard cooldown on infernal wave.

List is non exhaustive as I didn't play ROR since its release but really it doesn't matter if you get autistic about every single change or not, the people whining usually are just not good.

Morale bomb was really strong for Destro and got nerfed, creating more issues in ORVR as a result. Destro might have some small advantages in the PVE race of city and M2 bellow spam ( another issue on its own) but I haven't had any trouble winning city as Order overall. Yea you have to run a good setup but you have to do what it takes to win and shouldn't cry because 10 rdps and 5 wh isn't viable.

"Balancing" for city isn't going to bring people back nor should it be the focal point because its ultimately something people play for gear on their 5th alt. Its slightly competitive but you win on PVE not kills so even if its 250- 10 (kills that come from spawn protection,btw) you can pull of a stage 1 and 3 victory through PVE.

[sighy]

mhm... this nerf is years ago (3 years?!) and after this mara got a significant dmg buff.

They got utility exchanged for damage, but then the damage got nerfed... If you are referring to the changes in the spring of this year.

But was this the same patch? I am old
The utility nerf was long ago and the last one was only a dmg buff (where the AoE part was removed later), not?

The utility nerf was so big the Mara players of the time saw it as an overall nerf even before the compensation damage got toned down over a period of a few weeks. not like it really matters that much now lol

[adamska2]

We really have a Balance issue as you can see !!!!



Nerf Order

[Vri]

One side rolls the other and the losing side cries.

[Sponn]

We really have a Balance issue as you can see !!!!



Nerf Order

lol omg gtfo of here


order won big by 2000 instances! LMAO