do we have a balance problem?

[Sundowner]

honestly i do not see why you whiune: I got 1 order and 1 destro char. sometimes order win fortresses and sometimes loses. The people on the server are the same. If you are not satisfied make your own guild/warband and do cities. Whine on forum is useless.

Except when orders won majority of fortresses due to the class distribution mainly, forts got changed in 1-2 weeks. Destro has winrate over 70% for a year, order classes get nerfed.

forts are just garbage and not really the tool to measure things by. if fmj or phalanx isnt carrying the 100+ destro leeches forts aren't being won. besides, winrate isn't the end all be all of what indicates "a balance problem". if any of these order whiners recorded their city gameplay we would see real fast why they not only are losing but think there is also a destro dev conspiracy and super op unbeatable destro classes.

Orginized guilds still pushed forts tho, it was mainly catering to pugs who did not want to reroll rdps, not better orginize I don't argue for something, it's just funny when order looses a lot it's player and class issue, when destro looses a lot fort gets changed. it just, makes you think

[Hellwalkah]

Nop

[Ysaran]

Except when orders won majority of fortresses due to the class distribution mainly, forts got changed in 1-2 weeks. Destro has winrate over 70% for a year, order classes get nerfed.

forts are just garbage and not really the tool to measure things by. if fmj or phalanx isnt carrying the 100+ destro leeches forts aren't being won. besides, winrate isn't the end all be all of what indicates "a balance problem". if any of these order whiners recorded their city gameplay we would see real fast why they not only are losing but think there is also a destro dev conspiracy and super op unbeatable destro classes.

Orginized guilds still pushed forts tho, it was mainly catering to pugs who did not want to reroll rdps, not better orginize I don't argue for something, it's just funny when order looses a lot it's player and class issue, when destro looses a lot fort gets changed. it just, makes you think

Pls don't pretend that the those who write "L2P" are only distru player. And don't think neither that there is some kind of "Destru bias". Devs monitor the situation, and evaluate it with their standards, that we are not meant to know. If Devs don't implement the change you are hoping for, it's because they don't see the game from your same perspective.
Feedback are appreciated, but whine and complaints are just popcorn material for them

[orillah]

This whole destro defend thread is awesome popcorn material. Jeez even in Wow BC alliance didn't suck so much as order atm, well even in wotlk horde didnt suck so much xD.

[Sundowner]

forts are just garbage and not really the tool to measure things by. if fmj or phalanx isnt carrying the 100+ destro leeches forts aren't being won. besides, winrate isn't the end all be all of what indicates "a balance problem". if any of these order whiners recorded their city gameplay we would see real fast why they not only are losing but think there is also a destro dev conspiracy and super op unbeatable destro classes.

Orginized guilds still pushed forts tho, it was mainly catering to pugs who did not want to reroll rdps, not better orginize I don't argue for something, it's just funny when order looses a lot it's player and class issue, when destro looses a lot fort gets changed. it just, makes you think

Pls don't pretend that the those who write "L2P" are only distru player. And don't think neither that there is some kind of "Destru bias". Devs monitor the situation, and evaluate it with their standards, that we are not meant to know. If Devs don't implement the change you are hoping for, it's because they don't see the game from your same perspective.
Feedback are appreciated, but whine and complaints are just popcorn material for them

Agreed. Both sides have very biased people with agendas and what I said is fact and interpretation is up to us

I personally don't think devs are biased, if this interests you. But sometimes they do make questionable decisions or ignore issues with balance which, if adressed on time, wouldn't led to what we have now.

[Alfa1986]

may be this happens because destroside is overpopulated, and order is underpopulated right now, and therefore the system selects the "true" setup for destroside, the "wrong" one for order. more clearly, for the order, it is made from what it is, at least somehow to fill the mirror. maybe restrict all healers for a solo queue in this case?) it would be a battle for survival, who has the best dps will win). if the system cannot recruit healers for one of the sides, it would be more honest that two sides playing without healers than the example shown in the image

I checked the ror website for T2+ population and it was 51% destro when city queue started. Also this was IC, after Order took the 2nd fort with destro not even filling up the defenders spots in the fortress.
Destro had atleast one 24stack ready for phase1 matchmaking in the first five minuts (was watching Chugganaughts stream) and they didnt get a pop before Order could match with a 24stack.

yes, it is, but you do not take into account a few nuances
First, not all players like to play city sieges. some part of the people could simply not participate in the queuing, especially if these are high-level players who no longer need gear, they usually just stay in the area still open for rvr.
secondly, some of the players, after capturing the fort, could quickly rerol to the twinks on the other side.

If you say that this particular case happened about 15 minutes before the end of the sity siege, then why don't you consider the option that these people got in the queue as a pre-made? what prevented them from queuing up from the group as 6 wh or 3 sl +3 lions? what for? just that to have more chances to get into the instance than they would be alone.

[sighy]

Spoiler:

I was there today with this pug and I was booked out immediately as soon as I saw that the next premade.

Well since this is a screenshot i originally posted earlier this morning on ror discord, I guess i can go in and comfirm this was a pure 100% soloqueue situation of how order and destro archtype balance looks like in the extreme cases. On destro we chatted about how unreal it was that we had close to a perfect 2-2-2 pug comp, one dok was dps so maybe it was actually 8-8-8 but after order gave up i asked in the scenario chat if anyone was queueing as a 12man, 6man or even a duo queue. to all the responses i got an "im here solo" from atleast 10 of the people who bothered replying. Since order didnt come out after two wipes i took the time to check the guildtags of all of destro(only two had the same guildtag out of the 24 and that was not a guild i associate with tryhard premades), and with a little personal knowledge of what guilds are in alliance i would say it was fairly confirmed that this was a pure 24x1 destro solo queue with random perfect balance between the archtypes.

and i posted it on the discord because i do believe no matter what is done from a developer standpoint this issue is within the Order realm. And if we ask ourselves why people dont play knight and warriorpriest for example, its not exactly because the classes are bad or underperforming..

tl:dr order had a random pug instance with zero tanks and two AM healers rest were solohero dps. On destro they won the jackpot and had a perfect 8-8-8 archtype split and everyone were soloQ

In this case, everything is worse because this is direct evidence that people do not want to play these classes for nothing in the world.
Well, I have two 80 tanks and almost 80 runprists. Before leaving the scenario, I saw that someone had thrown into the chat that all of you should level one tank and one healer.
And I could start a long discussion why, for example, I do not play my SM in 2H, and destro players really love their Borks in brute mode. Or why and for what destro loving their Zealots, and RP has one role in all activities. Or why we lost a huge share of alpha tanks, when it suddenly turned out that Kobs was killing 1 on 1 WE without any problems and this goes beyond a certain general line. Or forgotten by all IB who threw a handout in the form of one tactic because he is not bad at 6v6, ignoring the fact that this is the second most playable tank in the order. Well, further down the list...
What happened recently? Another nerf of a Lion that was already smoother than even without it. Mirroring another unique ability for a class that even without it kills all living things that fall under the target in one person. New meta shaman + squig that paralyze the entire rvr because they don't have counter games at all.
The city is part of the game, but unfortunately the indicator is largely of the design of all activities.

Tbh unless it's guild/alliance/friends i don't log my maxed out characters much either. So could easily be part of the reason why you see ppl on their like 6th alt or just taking a break.

Kind of always was the case that when there is new bling to get Order win rates colossally spike and then even out as they either get the gear, get bored or both. And it'S been pretty much a year since last big influx of bling(not counting raked scens, because who wants their 6th reskin of invader outside of some wierd minmax?)

[Ninjagon]

OK. Face the truth. Yesterday, EU primetime for the whole night:
Order: 45% population.
Destruction: 55% population.
These data comes from this page, you can't deny them.

Off course, you can say: " Ok, but this does not mean anything."
Well, it does! There are reasons, other than "ha ha, learn to play and organise better".

When you log to the game today's night, look at the population. Guess what you will see.

[Fazuk]

So Devs should balance until we have a 50-50 population?

[VindicoAtrum]

OK. Face the truth. Yesterday, EU primetime for the whole night:
Order: 45% population.
Destruction: 55% population.
These data comes from this page, you can't deny them.

Off course, you can say: " Ok, but this does not mean anything."
Well, it does! There are reasons, other than "ha ha, learn to play and organise better".

When you log to the game today's night, look at the population. Guess what you will see.

?????

Popularity != balance.