[Zarbix] Talking about class balance

[jughurta69]

All of Zarbix arguments are very exaggerated form his point of view. He will make things seem a lot better or worse with circumstances that benefit his view point. Just accept the game for what it is .. a trip down nastalgia way.

May be
you right RoR is not AoR but RvR is RvR not PvP.
i think Balance PvP create problem in RvR game
Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...

ranges must understand that they are support and not main dps (except sorc and bw) .
I think when you play engineer / magus , SH / SW you must have a correct dps but far from being as big as now because the distance / tools def / cc / dps balance is not respected


Today Dev try too create new system is pretty good for the game just let's wait until they find the desired balance, good luck for that

[Kragg]

All top SHs this server and ever to play the game are still disliking the changes due to range nerf simply coz in a competitive world you get shut down by anyone who knows what range control is.
On the other side there are players who say it's OP due to damage and all the tools class has while ignoring positioning and awareness skills- the main thing for a ranged class.
I'll not discuss whats right or wrong coz answer is simple in our case- FULL REVERT.

The tons of SH that pop up , especially in the 6 man groups, is staggering tho.

[mryay]

All of Zarbix arguments are very exaggerated form his point of view. He will make things seem a lot better or worse with circumstances that benefit his view point. Just accept the game for what it is .. a trip down nastalgia way.

May be
you right RoR is not AoR but RvR is RvR not PvP.
i think Balance PvP create problem in RvR game
Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...

ranges must understand that they are support and not main dps (except sorc and bw) .
I think when you play engineer / magus , SH / SW you must have a correct dps but far from being as big as now because the distance / tools def / cc / dps balance is not respected


Today Dev try too create new system is pretty good for the game just let's wait until they find the desired balance, good luck for that

I disagree with the part "ranges must understand that they are support and not main DPS (except sorc and be) ", precisely because of what you say just before "Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...".

A DPS can be either main range DPS or support DPS, however, for the sake of promoting team play and realm play you MUST NOT combine great damage + great survival + great CC. BW & Sorcerer are in this spot: if they continue to deal high damage, they shot themselves. If a SW focuses on support and/or survival, the DPS is really mehhhh.

And this is why MMORPG RVR fostering the holy trinity are so popular, they make synergetic teams outperforming significantly individuals/solo/pick up groups.

I don't mind that rSH has that much burst damage and mobility, but it has to give up significantly the CC. Or abandon mobility for much less CC, etc.

Another way to balance it is to provide natural predators, in a rock-paper-scissor system, like it sort of used to be in the Age of Reckoning. WL Nerf/damaging tree lines is a consequence of more SH running in the lakes. Give them back their original pounce and they will "Thin the herd".

Similarly, I am more in favor of removing the short-range pounce to the WE and giving it to the Marauder. This way you have:
- WL -[is predator of]-> SH
- Marauder -[is predator of] -> SW
WE and WH are predators of (almost) everything anyway .

Cheers

[balvor877]

All of Zarbix arguments are very exaggerated form his point of view. He will make things seem a lot better or worse with circumstances that benefit his view point. Just accept the game for what it is .. a trip down nastalgia way.

May be
you right RoR is not AoR but RvR is RvR not PvP.
i think Balance PvP create problem in RvR game
Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...

ranges must understand that they are support and not main dps (except sorc and bw) .
I think when you play engineer / magus , SH / SW you must have a correct dps but far from being as big as now because the distance / tools def / cc / dps balance is not respected


Today Dev try too create new system is pretty good for the game just let's wait until they find the desired balance, good luck for that

Engi was my first character on live and I kinda liked the support dps and CC role until I found out that BWs can do basically everything better. Thus support dps is not working in this game because the real dps (BW/Sorc) also have all the tools. They would just get replaced with either BW/Sorc or melee dps.

I actually like that ranged classes are able to kill something because nothing is more frustrating than playing a squishy ranged that is only tickling the enemies. Without the help of the ranged dps other classes would become godlike. Try killing a healing far in the back or a tank without that ranged dps. Sure you could do that with melee dps but when melee dps is strong and ranged dps weak then all you have is boring melee assist trains. That's what we have had for years now.

The problem is not the dps. Maybe there are abilities that are too strong or rotations that lead to instant killing but regarding damage the balance is not too bad.

The problem is what everyone is mentioning here... all the tools certain classes have.

[balvor877]

I disagree with the part "ranges must understand that they are support and not main DPS (except sorc and be) ", precisely because of what you say just before "Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...".

A DPS can be either main range DPS or support DPS, however, for the sake of promoting team play and realm play you MUST NOT combine great damage + great survival + great CC. BW & Sorcerer are in this spot: if they continue to deal high damage, they shot themselves. If a SW focuses on support and/or survival, the DPS is really mehhhh.

And this is why MMORPG RVR fostering the holy trinity are so popular, they make synergetic teams outperforming significantly individuals/solo/pick up groups.

I don't mind that rSH has that much burst damage and mobility, but it has to give up significantly the CC. Or abandon mobility for much less CC, etc.

Another way to balance it is to provide natural predators, in a rock-paper-scissor system, like it sort of used to be in the Age of Reckoning. WL Nerf/damaging tree lines is a consequence of more SH running in the lakes. Give them back their original pounce and they will "Thin the herd".

signed.

Similarly, I am more in favor of removing the short-range pounce to the WE and giving it to the Marauder. This way you have:
- WL -[is predator of]-> SH
- Marauder -[is predator of] -> SW
WE and WH are predators of (almost) everything anyway .

No way! Mara has pull.

[PlagueMonk]

NA prime you mean the time when Order is dominating the zones?

Lets not go crazy shall we? You make it sound like Order dominates most of the time which is complete nonsense.

Order has better numbers for roughly 5-6 hours during the NA evening. I would then say there is a good balance for 4 hours and Dest dominates for the other 14 hours.

Ic has been getting farmed almost daily for 5 months, all during NA time. You can't name an NA destro warband because there aren't any.

lol, WHAT? Oh wait, you mean farmed by Dest. Yes, that's completely true.

If what you believe is true please explain how, during all of those IC fights, Dest wins the vast majority of the time?

Order might get to IC more often but probably 7/10 times Dest steamrolls and defends IC, reaping all those rewards, now that's some farming. The City just last Saturday night (during NA primetime) was Order 1 / Dest 4. I can only imagine how EZ city is for Dest when all us NA Order are not on.

[jughurta69]

mara pounce is impossible because the mara is a white walker
Mara have debuff and steal heal ( tactics) , good armor , good def and stance monstro

[lyncher12]

Lets not go crazy shall we? You make it sound like Order dominates most of the time which is complete nonsense.

Order has better numbers for roughly 5-6 hours during the NA evening. I would then say there is a good balance for 4 hours and Dest dominates for the other 14 hours.

Ic has been getting farmed almost daily for 5 months, all during NA time. You can't name an NA destro warband because there aren't any.

lol, WHAT? Oh wait, you mean farmed by Dest. Yes, that's completely true.

If what you believe is true please explain how, during all of those IC fights, Dest wins the vast majority of the time?

Order might get to IC more often but probably 7/10 times Dest steamrolls and defends IC, reaping all those rewards, now that's some farming. The City just last Saturday night (during NA primetime) was Order 1 / Dest 4. I can only imagine how EZ city is for Dest when all us NA Order are not on.

City logging =/= open rvr. There are at most 100 Destro defending forts and they are all afk in the top floor. If people on order did this there would be mass reports and crying non-stop.

[Wam]

please can we not use NA time or solo players as prime examples when it comes to any balance talks because its uncompetitive... and cities are not best example of balance either when people are bringing under geared alts. what works in NA time does not work in EU primetime, big difference in style and size of the fights and the level of semi organised players.

alot of issues are usually learn too play, some people accept this(there is alot of variables numbers/gear/skill/compo/assist) , some people look for excuse and other side is op arguement, same thing from both sides grass is greener, you always see it on the forum posts.

the best SH's was all ranged SH's and anyone experienced knows who they are... but who are all the OP MSH i hear so often about? hardly any name jumps out at you, where i know some old ranged sh's getting 200-0 kills often when active roaming in small groups. The SH's that didn't need or seemed positive about the rework.

MSH is so reliant on other classes to perform in competitive enviroment and has hard counters too... I love all the meme and whine material because its hilarious but on topic you shouldn't give the devs biased and inaccurate information regarding the class... can MSH be annoying sure... everything can in the right hands and played correctly... does it make it more scary than a proper choppa or mara no not really. If you think MSH is OP then slayer is also OP both pretty straight forward classes but some people struggle to put out the damage numbers they should be doing.

In our alliance i team with some competent dps players, and if i was against them id rather face the MSH stack than their choppa's or marauders alts.

[Neverever]

All of Zarbix arguments are very exaggerated form his point of view. He will make things seem a lot better or worse with circumstances that benefit his view point. Just accept the game for what it is .. a trip down nastalgia way.

May be
you right RoR is not AoR but RvR is RvR not PvP.
i think Balance PvP create problem in RvR game
Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...

ranges must understand that they are support and not main dps (except sorc and bw) .
I think when you play engineer / magus , SH / SW you must have a correct dps but far from being as big as now because the distance / tools def / cc / dps balance is not respected


Today Dev try too create new system is pretty good for the game just let's wait until they find the desired balance, good luck for that

I disagree with the part "ranges must understand that they are support and not main DPS (except sorc and be) ", precisely because of what you say just before "Range play without risk , lot of tools , cc , etc...".

A DPS can be either main range DPS or support DPS, however, for the sake of promoting team play and realm play you MUST NOT combine great damage + great survival + great CC. BW & Sorcerer are in this spot: if they continue to deal high damage, they shot themselves. If a SW focuses on support and/or survival, the DPS is really mehhhh.

And this is why MMORPG RVR fostering the holy trinity are so popular, they make synergetic teams outperforming significantly individuals/solo/pick up groups.

I don't mind that rSH has that much burst damage and mobility, but it has to give up significantly the CC. Or abandon mobility for much less CC, etc.

Another way to balance it is to provide natural predators, in a rock-paper-scissor system, like it sort of used to be in the Age of Reckoning. WL Nerf/damaging tree lines is a consequence of more SH running in the lakes. Give them back their original pounce and they will "Thin the herd".

Similarly, I am more in favor of removing the short-range pounce to the WE and giving it to the Marauder. This way you have:
- WL -[is predator of]-> SH
- Marauder -[is predator of] -> SW
WE and WH are predators of (almost) everything anyway .

Cheers

You are probably living in another world but SW has better burst than SH both in both Ranged and Melee builds. The only CC tools SW lacked compared to SH were AoE knock back and run away tactic and they were both nerfed to ground anyway. However most people are not even aware that SW has one of the best escape tools moral 1 cleanse and AP boost. Anyone who plays on both sides would notice that with the recent range changes it is harder to kill a SW than a ranged SH ( that's ofc if one knows how to play and use range advantage). Can anyone see a RSH performing well in 6vs6? The usual Destro nerf crusade group can cry rivers here if they like but it is obvious the same people parrot the same weak and unsupported arguments under different threads. No combat logs, no videos, nothing. But yeah SH is overturned in your minds. And we believe you...