Reroll destro

[Ysaran]

At Warband level WL is now a 3 button meme class, with a fraction of the Utility and variation that Mara and SH have got, no wonder nobody is interested in playing WL in large scale you don't even get Pounce any more if you want any kind of half decent burst attack.

I can't talk for Mara, but i can tell you that SH has exactly 3 AoE skills and the only utility it has is the CD increaser

SH still gets Pounce and a knockdown thought right in its standard Warband aoe spec without pet? WL does not. Does it not also get self knockback and snare from Sticky Squigz?

Yes, but all your aoe skills have CD and your most damaging skill can be interrupted. at least WL can spam. Anyway my point was just that SH has only 3 skill aoe in melee, which means that is boring af to play. I don't play neither WL o SH to proper lvl to be entitoled in discussing the balance.

[ByzantineTime]

pretty sure mara has has aoe WS and ini debuff, aoe kd, skill build-up increaser tactic, 100% armor pen ignore and health regen other than the aoe spam/wrecking ball/better interrupt he shares with WL. if you think monstro is a meme you really don't play aoe wl

Mara's don't have 100% armor pen, you have no clue how the tactic works, but I heard if you say 100% armor pen in front of the mirror 3 times in a dark bathroom it actually becomes true.
WS and ini debuff is nice and aoe KD, besides that tactic isn't really in use, and the health regen in zergs pls, you could have spared that.

Compared to WL a bit lesser but not really bad, I think WL does more damage I'm not sure if it's less it's because lack of feeding on fear(tactic).
I would buff M4 of WL in hunter tree, cause it looks weak, mara has same Morale in m2, perhaps move armor debuff in hunter tree to path of axeman, that is overall some minor adjustments as well that I won't mention right now.

Clearly said 100% armor pen IGNORE, not 100% armor pen. learn to read.

"100% armor pen ignore "
this is what you wrote
100% armor pen ignore, can you learn to write?
nevertheless
maras don't have 100% armor ignore nor pen.

[Ysaran]

LOL, ok..... fair balanced, working as intended. I can see that ANYTHING I say will be shot down by you even if it is widely known and debated constantly.

To say order and destro are on par/fair play in rvr is just.... pretty shillish.

When you say words like "widely known" you automatically lose every credibility. In matter of balance, facts have value, opinion are trash

[Sundowner]

Mara's don't have 100% armor pen, you have no clue how the tactic works, but I heard if you say 100% armor pen in front of the mirror 3 times in a dark bathroom it actually becomes true.
WS and ini debuff is nice and aoe KD, besides that tactic isn't really in use, and the health regen in zergs pls, you could have spared that.

Compared to WL a bit lesser but not really bad, I think WL does more damage I'm not sure if it's less it's because lack of feeding on fear(tactic).
I would buff M4 of WL in hunter tree, cause it looks weak, mara has same Morale in m2, perhaps move armor debuff in hunter tree to path of axeman, that is overall some minor adjustments as well that I won't mention right now.

Clearly said 100% armor pen IGNORE, not 100% armor pen. learn to read.

"100% armor pen ignore "
this is what you wrote
100% armor pen ignore, can you learn to write?
nevertheless
maras don't have 100% armor ignore nor pen.

https://pasteboard.co/JLqPPPm.png

what do you think shrug-off means in this context, or you don't really know how mara work's and are theorycrafting?

[ByzantineTime]

Clearly said 100% armor pen IGNORE, not 100% armor pen. learn to read.

"100% armor pen ignore "
this is what you wrote
100% armor pen ignore, can you learn to write?
nevertheless
maras don't have 100% armor ignore nor pen.

You have trouble understanding english language? what do you think shrug-off means in this context, or you don't really know how mara work's and are theorycrafting?

First of all your image doesn't work.
second of all this is what you wrote again "100% armor pen ignore", my english is fine if you don't know how to type properly then educate yourself.
3rd, Gift of monstrosity eats armor pen, means enemies have less armor pen when they attack, and I think you do get a little amount for yourself but that doesn't make it "100%"
4th, if you don't know how the armor pen tactic works, don't comment.

[Sundowner]

"100% armor pen ignore "
this is what you wrote
100% armor pen ignore, can you learn to write?
nevertheless
maras don't have 100% armor ignore nor pen.

You have trouble understanding english language? what do you think shrug-off means in this context, or you don't really know how mara work's and are theorycrafting?

First of all your image doesn't work.
second of all this is what you wrote again "100% armor pen ignore", my english is fine if you don't know how to type properly then educate yourself.
3rd, Gift of monstrosity eats armor pen, means enemies have less armor pen when they attack, and I think you do get a little amount for yourself but that doesn't make it "100%"
4th, if you don't know how the armor pen tactic works, don't comment.

Linked is fixed. what does "eat" mean? "letting you shrug off enemy's armor penetration" is a how skill works. meaning all armor pen stat enemy has will be equaled zero when attacking mara, hence mara will utilize full physical dmg. mitigation (not that mara will mitigate 100% of physical dmg). literally the same thing I wrote "enemy armor penetration ignore". Also it is a stance not a tactic.

[Sybreal]

I only play order. We are frequently outnumbered during the times I play (late EU to NA), but that doesn't mean we lose a lot. We usually hold destro off at keeps or fort until they ragequit or xrealm because they can't figure out how to win without a massive numerical advantage. The exception is when they have their A-list guilds leading the charge.

In fact, just last week we were at 42% Order 58% destro T4 pop and we were massively outnumbered in KV. We held the keep and destro started logging off or xrealming. By the end of the siege, we were back to 49-51 T4 server pop with quite a bit fewer total players.

We might not be able to win in the open field too often, but we can sure as hell stop them pretty often in keeps and forts. Also, if you want to not get permanently roflstomped on order, you need to join an organized and decently sized guild. Our organization and leadership is basically the only way we can beat destro most of the time.

[ByzantineTime]

You have trouble understanding english language? what do you think shrug-off means in this context, or you don't really know how mara work's and are theorycrafting?

First of all your image doesn't work.
second of all this is what you wrote again "100% armor pen ignore", my english is fine if you don't know how to type properly then educate yourself.
3rd, Gift of monstrosity eats armor pen, means enemies have less armor pen when they attack, and I think you do get a little amount for yourself but that doesn't make it "100%"
4th, if you don't know how the armor pen tactic works, don't comment.

Linked is fixed. what does "eat" mean? "letting you shrug off enemy's armor penetration" is a how skill works. meaning all armor pen stat enemy has will be equaled zero when attacking mara, hence mara will utilize full physical dmg. mitigation (not that mara will mitigate 100% of physical dmg). literally the same thing I wrote "enemy armor penetration ignore". Also it is a stance not a tactic.

I'm not sure how it works, it says shurgs off enemy's armor penetration. another word for shrug is pull.
if an enemy has 30% armor pen, and you shrug it off him, does it mean enemy has 0% armor pen, and you have his 30%? or it means he has only 0%, without you the mara getting 30%?
I don't think you get his 30%, and if u use it in aoe how many armor pens you get? I guess the highest one, like game mechanics work? and then only 1 enemy has his armor pen eaten or rest of them as well? it's very confusing.
I think you only eat 1 armor pen the highest one, but I am not sure you get his armor pen to yourself I think you only disable one enemy. but it doesn't say anywhere how exactly it works.

[Sundowner]

First of all your image doesn't work.
second of all this is what you wrote again "100% armor pen ignore", my english is fine if you don't know how to type properly then educate yourself.
3rd, Gift of monstrosity eats armor pen, means enemies have less armor pen when they attack, and I think you do get a little amount for yourself but that doesn't make it "100%"
4th, if you don't know how the armor pen tactic works, don't comment.

Linked is fixed. what does "eat" mean? "letting you shrug off enemy's armor penetration" is a how skill works. meaning all armor pen stat enemy has will be equaled zero when attacking mara, hence mara will utilize full physical dmg. mitigation (not that mara will mitigate 100% of physical dmg). literally the same thing I wrote "enemy armor penetration ignore". Also it is a stance not a tactic.

I'm not sure how it works, it says shurgs off enemy's armor penetration. another word for shrug is pull.
if an enemy has 30% armor pen, and you shrug it off him, does it mean enemy has 0% armor pen, and you have his 30%? or it means he has only 0%, without you the mara getting 30%?
I don't think you get his 30%, and if u use it in aoe how many armor pens you get? I guess the highest one, like game mechanics work? and then only 1 enemy has his armor pen eaten or rest of them as well? it's very confusing.
I think you only eat 1 armor pen the highest one, but I am not sure you get his armor pen to yourself I think you only disable one enemy. but it doesn't say anywhere how exactly it works.

No in this context you should not take definition of shrug as a word, but "shrug-off" a verb that means to shake-off (i.e. do not take into account, i.e. ignore). Given skill works like this if it procs all enemies will have their armor penetration stat (coming from WS and flat bonuses) will be reduced to zero when attacking mara. Mara does not increase his armor penetration.

[lyncher12]

if you read the tooltip for when it procs it says 10%