Order is the new chaos?

[Gurf]

I cant put my finger on why people would not want to support order guilds in the past, but if we look at current time we see order guilds winning instances in city from time to time, and when its EU prime the fights are close and order has a fighting chance in the open because the guilds are out on their event-days. But again using an established Orderguild like CNTK they had event to night and for quite a while did they try to find 1tank and 1healer for their event ending, not a group, just two spots that couldnt be filled by an entire realm showing no interest and support. :shrug:
So if the puggies dont see these results as appealing, i simply just dont think any Developer involvement can change that.

The mentioned Pug-warbandleaders who tried going from Destro to order and quickly returned are probably the best example of how the Blue realm is just not supporting teamplay and effort, even when there are leaders ready to recruit.

Last night CNTK were 30 minutes too late, Lutz, Beastz, Iprotecc and some others were all running pug Warbands and had been advertising for a while to fill their spaces, so by the time CNTK were advertising the main rvr players were already taken. Order had about 3-4 organised groups running, so not as bad as you think

[Akalukz]

Spoiler:

One point you forgot ofc which is in fact more difficult on order is to build something up from 0.
The guilds which were successful on order had all something in common (phalanx order, tup order, LMN, DND), a strong core of players who mostly know how to play and wanted to achieve something.
So with that being sad, it's harder to keep ppl motivated if you start from scratch.

Hi Ragga, nice to see you again. (did you loose your legacy 80 title?)
I think that is a solid point you bring up. Something that for sure gives you a clear headstart is when you have a solid foundation to build on. But at the same time I think you can remember in DnD how Order as a realm just showed zero interest in joining when we had to LFG for party4 members.
If we go by your point, then the solid foundation should naturally give more appeal to the warband roster but when people dont even want to join even for pug-fil with no obligations to sticking it out, free to leave whenever, and no future commitments. Isnt there then an issue realmwide? Maybe people dont want to join discord, want to play multiplayer, or have no interest in fighting other players.
I cant put my finger on why people would not want to support order guilds in the past, but if we look at current time we see order guilds winning instances in city from time to time, and when its EU prime the fights are close and order has a fighting chance in the open because the guilds are out on their event-days. But again using an established Orderguild like CNTK they had event to night and for quite a while did they try to find 1tank and 1healer for their event ending, not a group, just two spots that couldnt be filled by an entire realm showing no interest and support. :shrug:
So if the puggies dont see these results as appealing, i simply just dont think any Developer involvement can change that.

The mentioned Pug-warbandleaders who tried going from Destro to order and quickly returned are probably the best example of how the Blue realm is just not supporting teamplay and effort, even when there are leaders ready to recruit.

And generally speaking this topic was never meant to turn into Single ability-balance mudwar, but instead trying to highlight situations where the average pug player on Order can be inspired to put in more effort and enjoy the game's potential.

The fighting spirit has always riddled me on RoR.

It's easier to Pug on Destro on classes that are effective in RvR. Mara / SH / Magus / Sham Where as the easy Order classes to pug heavily Rdps leanding. Engy / SW / AM / WL

[Bergbart]

this^^ I want romper stomper to 40 than turtle 60++ after geting good equipp want romper stomper again.
Kotbs is Boring.
Ironbreaker has good options but not enough
The Sm can make good damage but it feels other than bo.(Style).

Give Ib tree hit Combo and i play one:P

IB has T'ree Hit Combo. IB's version is even better than Bo's one. 3 skill, first tree

I know but its feels like a Bigdot back in live never skilled after Testing.... heavy blow was enough(Hb + insert buff, cc, Damage reduction + hb + and so on)...my opinion i dont know in ror....is the skill better?

[CountTalabecland]

Can confirm Destro scen Pug is easier.

Leveling a Choppa and topping DPS every scen takes laughably no effort as all the Order pugs attempt to run away from GTDC and SH meleeball.

Sure sometimes a premade with a proper setup appears and can actually sustain, but its few and far between.

Especially on weekends it takes >10 min to stack a melee grp even when playing/leading as the MDPS. On Order it takes forever and forget it if you aren't a tank or healer taking the initiative to start a grp with support classes.

[Likeaboss]

IB has T'ree Hit Combo. IB's version is even better than Bo's one. 3 skill, first tree

Just curious, in what World is Grudge-Born Fury better than T'ree hit Combo

[zulnam]

IB has T'ree Hit Combo. IB's version is even better than Bo's one. 3 skill, first tree

Just curious, in what World is Grudge-Born Fury better than T'ree hit Combo

Assuming he's referring to the crit chance increase if you have grudge. On full grudge, it's a flat 20% crit increase for that ability.

Let's not waste 3 pages discussing this now. IB's channel is different than BO; sometimes better, sometimes worse. depending on if you get the crits or not.

[Rapzel]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm surprised that noone mentioned yet one of the most important reason why Order lacks tanks (and that starts the whole bad setup chain reaction). It's actually very simple.

My theory has always been that even tanks need to have a spec to be able to do some damage (in every game, to keep it healthy). Black ork is greatest example and explain why it is super popular, it's the best designed (tank) class in the game but not because of it's utility.

Regardless of any utilities you have, there must be a spec/build that once in a while you can go and wreck havoc with, otherwise people just get bored playing only "utilities". This is axiom one.

So while tank damage sounds like a negligible topic, it is actually the root of all order's problem: because MMO players mostly, inevitably interested about damage, doing damage (not soaking), that's everyone's nature... now its cool that to be able to function well you do minimal damage, strap on a shield and help your mates... thats cool for 95% of your playtime... but that remaining 5%, where you just want to join an SC and smash people hard... that is whats missing from order tanks... and that's why ppl dont play order tanks. It's an extremely important aspect of the game and it clearly explains why for example knight population drops massively after nerfs like Runefangs and why Chosen population skyrockets after buffs like full spirit damage.

It's no surprise that black orks are the best tanks in the game, it's exactly for this reason, it has the perfect amount of utility, survivability, etc.. BUT also the perfect amount of damage if they spec for it once in a blue moon... so this keeps players motivated to keep playing them even outside of strict guild wb hours of snb'ing.

Have you heard about our lord and saviour Knight of the Blazing Sun?
It's viewed as the best tank in the game for pretty much everything except PvE.
Yet it does the least damage in the game, how does that work according to this logic?
Sure BO is a great WB tank, but it's also probably (the other contender for this being SM) the worst tank in comp. 6vs6 atm.
Sure it may be a pug stomper, but the morale nerf really hit it hard, all it brings is raw damage and stat steal.

Yep. And it's boring AF even in 2h. My big boy sword spec gives more utility instead of damage. Best tank, woohoo. Cheer me on as i crit for 400.

I used to crit for 600 but Mighty Soul was considered overpowered.

Play your Engi or BW then? If you don't like winning, tank maybe isn't for you?
Maybe ranged dps is your choice so you can just see big numbers one screen and then go whine about why no one else carries you in Scenarios like the majority of people in this thread.

[MedV]

Well I have been maining a Heal AM and have tried to join some top guilds. I ask if theyre recruiting AMs at this moment and they all said no. In a game where healers are lacking most guilds still don’t want to take AMs. Same goes for IB although at a lesser extent since you need them for Slayers.

But to the class balance point. Slayers look horrible, some might like the look but most would just rather play a choppy is they like that play style. Same goes for almost every order tank. I think this all has to do with appearance.

[Rapzel]

Well I have been maining a Heal AM and have tried to join some top guilds. I ask if theyre recruiting AMs at this moment and they all said no. In a game where healers are lacking most guilds still don’t want to take AMs. Same goes for IB although at a lesser extent since you need them for Slayers.

But to the class balance point. Slayers look horrible, some might like the look but most would just rather play a choppy is they like that play style. Same goes for almost every order tank. I think this all has to do with appearance.

Quite sure TUP and VII are looking for one still. So Idk what guilds you've gone to.

[nailinthehead]

As a casual tank player you can get tonnes of renown and contribution simply by challenging blobs of des (you get renown&contri for every kill), holding the line for people behind you (contribution&renown as well) and if you're really edgy you can buff ppl around you while trying to dps (contri&renown here as well). And if you swap guard than rivers of renown will flow.

Trying to dps since you will never be as effective dps as dps class. Support style really rewards players in this game.

Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?