Choppa/Slayer, risk vs reward needs to be fixed

[Bobbiom]

What Slayer and Choppa bring to a warband is more than just aoe damage, they will bring most importantly 50% healdebuff and have their full singeltarget rotation with them aswell as aoe pressure.
Slayer and Choppa are good at shutting down BW/Sorcs (any dps really) because of 100% crit chance reduction debuff and -50% parry/block debuff is no joke.
Mara and WL don't come with any 50% healdebuff and their singeltarget is mediocre in aoe spec even though they will have access to an execute ability.
Mara and WL will spend majority of their time using aoe abilitys whereas Slayer and choppa will go between singeltarget and aoe.
Thus not making it hard to understand that they will fall behind in the damage meters.

Slayer and Choppa is not a newbie friendly class to play.
If you dont manage your rage you will not melt, you will explode.

A sec need to find my totally none biased screenshot.. hang on.. ah found it.

( yea I know not the same caliber of wb fight as the previous poster, 1-2party premade with random people on both sides I think.)

Here is a pic of a good/experienced Choppa player vs the 2 bottom ones, the diffrence is HUGE.
It comes down to the skill of the player, also rr, gear, proper stats stacking.

Teamplay is 100% key in this game and for the love of god stop looking at things from a microscope point of view.

[CountTalabecland]

Slayer and Choppa in end-game gear with good players are the two highest damage dealers in the game. Choppa with +crit dmg tactic and Destro synergy and Slayer with Rampage + IB are incredibly strong in groups.

There is no reason to buff any class as it would make every other DPS more obsolete than they already are.

Slayer could use some form of gap-closer like GTDC to bring it up to the Choppa's level or they could remove the pull from GTDC to bring the Choppa back down from god tier.

In either case, they do not need to a survivability or damage buff.

[Mergrim]

Slayer and Choppa in end-game gear with good players are the two highest damage dealers in the game. Choppa with +crit dmg tactic and Destro synergy and Slayer with Rampage + IB are incredibly strong in groups.

There is no reason to buff any class as it would make every other DPS more obsolete than they already are.

Slayer could use some form of gap-closer like GTDC to bring it up to the Choppa's level or they could remove the pull from GTDC to bring the Choppa back down from god tier.

In either case, they do not need to a survivability or damage buff.

Main problem is you can't stack crit on choppa, most choppa run on 20% crit chance, my zealot is -24% crit to be crit, goal is to have around -29%. So 25% crit dmg tactic not work on 60-70% ppl.
If you run full renown crit then you lower ws or futile strike. Mara don't have this problem 70%ignore armor penetration 60% crit chance with tactic.
Not asking about choppa/slayer buff. Some classes need nerf and all ppl who play them know it. Mara is broken.
Atleast Hurtin time and Reckles gamble should be balanced. Same backlash like bw/sorc on casting skill not on every hit they made.

[Oglaf]

Slayer could use some form of gap-closer like GTDC to bring it up to the Choppa's level or they could remove the pull from GTDC to bring the Choppa back down from god tier.

Hahahaha! AHAHAHHAHA!

Gief Choppa ID and Rampage and we can talk about it.

You'll soon regret it when you realize that GTDC is just free immunity.

[CountTalabecland]

Slayer could use some form of gap-closer like GTDC to bring it up to the Choppa's level or they could remove the pull from GTDC to bring the Choppa back down from god tier.

Hahahaha! AHAHAHHAHA!

Gief Choppa ID and Rampage and we can talk about it.

You'll soon regret it when you realize that GTDC is just free immunity.

I play Choppa.... and i would be fine with Choppa being a Slayer clone. But, I would rather have a pull over the other two any day. The mobility + CC is more important. Good Choppas consistently top dmg charts and are the core of the melee ball and all without having Rampage.

Outside of cities, Order has no tanks and 90% of them don’t have the stats to parry you consistently and more than enough of your AoE gets through. Anything outside of city is easy. Pug scens are 15 min of Choppa go brrrrr.

Roll a Slayer and you’ll notice how little of a difference ID/Rampage makes in most situations. They’re fine abilities but Slayer having **** CC hurts.

Unless you’re a dumb **** then its not hard to use GTDC effectively and rip healers and ranged apart.

[CountTalabecland]

Slayer and Choppa in end-game gear with good players are the two highest damage dealers in the game. Choppa with +crit dmg tactic and Destro synergy and Slayer with Rampage + IB are incredibly strong in groups.

There is no reason to buff any class as it would make every other DPS more obsolete than they already are.

Slayer could use some form of gap-closer like GTDC to bring it up to the Choppa's level or they could remove the pull from GTDC to bring the Choppa back down from god tier.

In either case, they do not need to a survivability or damage buff.

Main problem is you can't stack crit on choppa, most choppa run on 20% crit chance, my zealot is -24% crit to be crit, goal is to have around -29%. So 25% crit dmg tactic not work on 60-70% ppl.
If you run full renown crit then you lower ws or futile strike. Mara don't have this problem 70%ignore armor penetration 60% crit chance with tactic.
Not asking about choppa/slayer buff. Some classes need nerf and all ppl who play them know it. Mara is broken.
Atleast Hurtin time and Reckles gamble should be balanced. Same backlash like bw/sorc on casting skill not on every hit they made.

You don’t really need to have crazy high crit. The 20% range from end game gear still crits very often with how many attacks you are sending out in AoE spec. Especially with debuffs, even FS X 4 isn’t going to save anyone but tanks who can bring a lot of blocking and toughness to catch some do that dmg.

At least that’s what I see from my combat log. I doubt 70% of players run that high of anti-crit. Futile strikes x 3 on the smart ones, most Order pugs, well they don’t live long enough to matter.

[Ninjagon]

the topics says: Why bw/sorc have +crit damage and crit % with almost zero penalty ?
What?
The Sorcerer and the BW pays the highest price in the game for their good dps.

Yes U need a 1 hot from a healer. And Sorc/ BW have more toughnes. Dont lose armor/ reisists. So Bw a old grampa is harder too kill that a BIG Angry Ork

Bw/Sorc is harder to kill that a BIG Angry Ork? Really?
Perhaps you do not know, that that self damage is usually -750 unmitigated hp and another -50 hp from self dps boost.
Perhaps you do not know, what armor these casters really have.
Perhaps you do not know, what limited defensive abilities they have.
Or there must be a strong weed you smoke, mate

[Mergrim]

the topics says: Why bw/sorc have +crit damage and crit % with almost zero penalty ?
What?
The Sorcerer and the BW pays the highest price in the game for their good dps.

Yes U need a 1 hot from a healer. And Sorc/ BW have more toughnes. Dont lose armor/ reisists. So Bw a old grampa is harder too kill that a BIG Angry Ork

Bw/Sorc is harder to kill that a BIG Angry Ork? Really?
Perhaps you do not know, that that self damage is usually -750 unmitigated hp and another -50 hp from self dps boost.
Perhaps you do not know, what armor these casters really have.
Perhaps you do not know, what limited defensive abilities they have.
Or there must be a strong weed you smoke, mate

Maybe you don't know but choppa/slayer hurtin time/reckles gamble done more backlash then bw/sorc.
Maybe you don't know but bw/sorc have perfect stats on sove gear so they have more wounds.
Maybe you don't know but choppa/skayer on full rage have less armor then bw/sorc and resist /2.

[Ninjagon]

Sorry but no. It is not hard to compare which one is more squishy. Ask yoursef who would you target first? The answer is pretty clear: BW/Sorc first, because they die so easily.
----
Rampage is good, but at reasonable cost.
On the other hand, to bring more fuel to the fire, there is a famous choppa pull, "broken" ability with the potential to disrupt or break the enemy play. Undefendable. Repeatable. Random.

If you've never played against it, you do not know, what shiit it actually is. Because of lags or whatever, that pull can trigger from far more distance than described/designed and it could (and it will) pull any nearby oponent right into the melee death ball which is the meta game of Destruction.
Even for tanks it's a hard task to survive inside the critical melee AOE blob. Try it. Taste it. Then talk again.

[emiliorv]

On the other hand, to bring more fuel to the fire, there is a famous choppa pull, "broken" ability with the potential to disrupt or break the enemy play. Undefendable. Repeatable. Random.

The undefendable component from GTDC was nerfed (removed) some patches ago...