Patch Notes 18/03/2021

[dalen]

Bug Fixes

- The damage bonus from daemons now works like the tooltips say, +4% damage per stack up to a maximum of +20%. Previously they gave +5% per stack, up to a maximum of +40%.

Reducing damage by 20% (1/5) for two of the most difficult classes to play in the game is a pile of ****.
Thank you once again for fixing something that wasn't broke.
https://imgur.com/kKn1y5Q

Reducing from 140% damage to 120% damage is a reduction by 1/7, not 1/5. So 14.2%, not 20%.

And if you used for example Daemonic Contract and Bloodlord weapon it is a reduction from 160% damage to 140% damage, so 1/8 or 12.5%.

And that is only assuming you were always on 8 stacks before.

If you averaged around 5 stacks that's a 3.4% damage reduction.

[Orontes]

Double post

[Orontes]

Trivial Blows should not be brought back. It was a bad idea then, and remains a bad idea.



-Per the Bug Fix/nerf of engi and magus. It is completely wrong. There was no bug.


Note the patch from Oct. of 2016:

The change set for Engineer and Magus:

Changes to Improvised Upgrades and Unholy Empowerment:
+ Damage is increased by 5% per stack instead of 4%.
+ The maximum stack is now 8, up from 5, for a maximum bonus of 40% damage.
+ These buffs will also increase the range of both you and your pet by 6.25% per stack, to a maximum of 50%.

This 2016 Patch change is what made engi and magi viable.

[Helltrain]

Good patch. Magus was overperfoming damage wise when he should overperform on utility.

Now fix the 25% damage tactic from healers, compared to the 160 int tactic who is capped, this one is really broken strong.

[Orontes]

add trivial blows,but dont add doomflaye/warpforged crit buffs? Really?

So I'll explain it all here once and for all, because the devs balanced according the info I gave them but not according to my suggestions on how to balance them. (maybe because they think im always out for personal class gain, why would I report this then?), now their whole perception of the classes are skewed because they look at total damage numbers in city and just label it as broken. I'll order the events according to time.

A statement to make first, napalm/mist is a majority of the total aoe output you see from these classes in city.

Napalm/Mist changed to defendable - this change happened because I revealed to lotharic that these abilities were not calculating resists properly and doing bonus unmitigated damage (which is why youd see over 1k tick crits from them), I also advised that making it defendable would not fix this (as the issue was the damage calculation) and cause unintended side effects, like allowing engi to proc pierce defenses and allow WP to proc exalted defenses off of mist defense.

After defendable napalm/mist change- In changing the properties, the devs didnt even realise the domino effect they caused, and still havent, to date. Napalm/mist is now benefitting from the 40%+ damage bonus from the class mechanic, previously it was not. And additionally they are proccing the side effects I was talking about, and those kind of things can change realm balance. > The devs are seeing the increased damage from cities and maybe extra kills in orvr and forts from engis/magus or they concluded at least that their damage output remained the same despite their attempted nerf.

Which is how we get to the now, they have incorrectly analysed the core issue with the class' aoe spec, which again I reiterate falls down to 1 ability. -NAPALM/MIST- however they are not aware that this ability is the perpetrator for their elevated performance, and have decided to nerf the entire class and every spec as a consequence. Really lazy tbh

The above indicates the Devs are ignorant about the played experience of engi/magi. The suggestions given to Devs who are ignorant of the played experience of these two classes has led to their evisceration. This is stunning.

The 40% damage bonus was not a bug. It was from the engi/magi rework in Oct. 2016 patch. The rework that made them viable.

[Cqengi]

add trivial blows,but dont add doomflaye/warpforged crit buffs? Really?

So I'll explain it all here once and for all, because the devs balanced according the info I gave them but not according to my suggestions on how to balance them. (maybe because they think im always out for personal class gain, why would I report this then?), now their whole perception of the classes are skewed because they look at total damage numbers in city and just label it as broken. I'll order the events according to time.

A statement to make first, napalm/mist is a majority of the total aoe output you see from these classes in city.

Napalm/Mist changed to defendable - this change happened because I revealed to lotharic that these abilities were not calculating resists properly and doing bonus unmitigated damage (which is why youd see over 1k tick crits from them), I also advised that making it defendable would not fix this (as the issue was the damage calculation) and cause unintended side effects, like allowing engi to proc pierce defenses and allow WP to proc exalted defenses off of mist defense.

After defendable napalm/mist change- In changing the properties, the devs didnt even realise the domino effect they caused, and still havent, to date. Napalm/mist is now benefitting from the 40%+ damage bonus from the class mechanic, previously it was not. And additionally they are proccing the side effects I was talking about, and those kind of things can change realm balance. > The devs are seeing the increased damage from cities and maybe extra kills in orvr and forts from engis/magus or they concluded at least that their damage output remained the same despite their attempted nerf.

Which is how we get to the now, they have incorrectly analysed the core issue with the class' aoe spec, which again I reiterate falls down to 1 ability. -NAPALM/MIST- however they are not aware that this ability is the perpetrator for their elevated performance, and have decided to nerf the entire class and every spec as a consequence. Really lazy tbh

The above indicates the Devs are ignorant about the played experience of engi/magi. The suggestions given to Devs who are ignorant of the played experience of these two classes has led to their evisceration. This is stunning.

The 40% damage bonus was not a bug. It was from the engi/magi rework in Oct. 2016 patch. The rework that made them viable.

When I wrote this I hadnt even noticed that they tried to pass this off as a bugfix. I am surprised that they honestly believe that people would consider this a bugfix.

[Orontes]

Bug Fixes

- The damage bonus from daemons now works like the tooltips say, +4% damage per stack up to a maximum of +20%. Previously they gave +5% per stack, up to a maximum of +40%.

Reducing damage by 20% (1/5) for two of the most difficult classes to play in the game is a pile of ****.
Thank you once again for fixing something that wasn't broke.
https://imgur.com/kKn1y5Q

Reducing from 140% damage to 120% damage is a reduction by 1/7, not 1/5. So 14.2%, not 20%.

And if you used for example Daemonic Contract and Bloodlord weapon it is a reduction from 160% damage to 140% damage, so 1/8 or 12.5%.

And that is only assuming you were always on 8 stacks before.

If you averaged around 5 stacks that's a 3.4% damage reduction.

The above comments indicate someone who doesn't play the affected classes. The base line damage for engi/magi was considered rubbish. The 20% damage bonus first occurred on Live and the classes were still seen as comic relief. It wasn't until the 2016 rework of the two class that boosted the damage bonus to 40% that viability was achieved. A 20% reduction in damage bonus is not insignificant for classes that strain to be competitive or an option for grps. This error needs to be reversed. It is a mistake. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of the player experience of the two classes.

[dalen]

Reducing damage by 20% (1/5) for two of the most difficult classes to play in the game is a pile of ****.
Thank you once again for fixing something that wasn't broke.
https://imgur.com/kKn1y5Q

Reducing from 140% damage to 120% damage is a reduction by 1/7, not 1/5. So 14.2%, not 20%.

And if you used for example Daemonic Contract and Bloodlord weapon it is a reduction from 160% damage to 140% damage, so 1/8 or 12.5%.

And that is only assuming you were always on 8 stacks before.

If you averaged around 5 stacks that's a 3.4% damage reduction.

The above comments indicate someone who doesn't play the affected classes. The base line damage for engi/magi was considered rubbish. The 20% damage bonus first occurred on Live and the classes were still seen as comic relief. It wasn't until the 2016 rework of the two class that boosted the damage bonus to 40% that viability was achieved. A 20% reduction in damage bonus is not insignificant for classes that strain to be competitive or an option for grps. This error needs to be reversed. It is a mistake. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of the player experience of the two classes.

No, it was just maths. But sure, lets continue to pretend that 20 / 140 = 1 / 5.

[Orontes]

So I'll explain it all here once and for all, because the devs balanced according the info I gave them but not according to my suggestions on how to balance them. (maybe because they think im always out for personal class gain, why would I report this then?), now their whole perception of the classes are skewed because they look at total damage numbers in city and just label it as broken. I'll order the events according to time.

A statement to make first, napalm/mist is a majority of the total aoe output you see from these classes in city.

Napalm/Mist changed to defendable - this change happened because I revealed to lotharic that these abilities were not calculating resists properly and doing bonus unmitigated damage (which is why youd see over 1k tick crits from them), I also advised that making it defendable would not fix this (as the issue was the damage calculation) and cause unintended side effects, like allowing engi to proc pierce defenses and allow WP to proc exalted defenses off of mist defense.

After defendable napalm/mist change- In changing the properties, the devs didnt even realise the domino effect they caused, and still havent, to date. Napalm/mist is now benefitting from the 40%+ damage bonus from the class mechanic, previously it was not. And additionally they are proccing the side effects I was talking about, and those kind of things can change realm balance. > The devs are seeing the increased damage from cities and maybe extra kills in orvr and forts from engis/magus or they concluded at least that their damage output remained the same despite their attempted nerf.

Which is how we get to the now, they have incorrectly analysed the core issue with the class' aoe spec, which again I reiterate falls down to 1 ability. -NAPALM/MIST- however they are not aware that this ability is the perpetrator for their elevated performance, and have decided to nerf the entire class and every spec as a consequence. Really lazy tbh

The above indicates the Devs are ignorant about the played experience of engi/magi. The suggestions given to Devs who are ignorant of the played experience of these two classes has led to their evisceration. This is stunning.

The 40% damage bonus was not a bug. It was from the engi/magi rework in Oct. 2016 patch. The rework that made them viable.

When I wrote this I hadnt even noticed that they tried to pass this off as a bugfix. I am surprised that they honestly believe that people would consider this a bugfix.

It's shocking. The bug fix claim indicates a real disingenuousness or a fundamental knowledge gap on the part of those with their finger on the class button. All engi/magi who have played these classes for an extended period know quite well the hallmark change that occurred with the 2016 rework. Now, according to your account, things are blown up because of a casual approach to development and/or misunderstanding of the true nature of the classes. This error needs to be reversed. It's a bad decision.

[Orontes]

Reducing from 140% damage to 120% damage is a reduction by 1/7, not 1/5. So 14.2%, not 20%.

And if you used for example Daemonic Contract and Bloodlord weapon it is a reduction from 160% damage to 140% damage, so 1/8 or 12.5%.

And that is only assuming you were always on 8 stacks before.

If you averaged around 5 stacks that's a 3.4% damage reduction.

The above comments indicate someone who doesn't play the affected classes. The base line damage for engi/magi was considered rubbish. The 20% damage bonus first occurred on Live and the classes were still seen as comic relief. It wasn't until the 2016 rework of the two class that boosted the damage bonus to 40% that viability was achieved. A 20% reduction in damage bonus is not insignificant for classes that strain to be competitive or an option for grps. This error needs to be reversed. It is a mistake. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of the player experience of the two classes.

No, it was just maths. But sure, lets continue to pretend that 20 / 140 = 1 / 5.

Reread my comment. You've not understood it. As stated: 40% damage bonus reduced to 20% is a 20% reduction of bonus damage. As also stated, the 20% damage bonus as it was on Live was universally understood as insufficient. Both magi and engi were laughing stocks on Live. This error in nerfing these classes under the guise of a bug fix (that is demonstrably false) needs to be reversed.