Sorc lack of CC/HD

[sighy]

I suppose this is about as good of a thread as any to dump my ideas and suggestions. For the sake of clarity i'm going to sort it by Mastery trees.

(Reocurring theme that Sorc m4s get commonly overshadowed by other class's m1/m2 baseline offerings... yeah that bad)

Path of Agony:
-M4 makes no sense for ST burst build. It's and aoe AP/health drain, which ends up doing less damage than Rampaging Syphon and heals/gives AP only to you. My suggestion would be to change this skill to something like "Wrath of Hekarti", which would either offer a significant single target burst or strip defenses off a single target temporarily.

-Shades of death... just kind of lackluster and doesn't even pair well with the idea of the tree it's in, because it compounds timestamps, which are more of a Calamity thing anyway.

-Echo of Power should be a tactic/set bonus not a fully fledged mastery ability.

-tactics of the tree are fine

Path of Calamity
-M4 again area of effect utility skill on a perdominantly single target/affliction oriented tree. The utility it offers is lackluster too targetting only 9 people and uses 2 of the weakest least effective kinds of CC.

-Absorb vitality... idea is alright thematically, but 20hp/dmg per second... come on

-Gloom of Night... no reason to go for it in any build really

-Tactics and Hand of Ruin are very good, when used right.

Path of Destruction
-M4 once again horribad and you're better off using default m2s. Moving Soul Stealer here could go a long way, if you made the healing work like rampaging spyhon, damage 1000 and the ap generation party wide

-Shadow Knives probably only need slight numerical adjustment to be on par with PoS

-Black Horror... again i don't really see a good reason to get this, in any build. Maybe make it increase critical damage, on afflicted targets instead of a minor ini debuff? Or make it a slow or smoething.

-rest of the tree is honestly fine.




Overall the problems of Sorc are kind of based on age and that they don't really get the bang for their buck. They have by far the least of and the least effective defensive utility out of the rdps, they regularly do themselves damage, are arguably the squishiest and do only passable damage, if left alone unchecked. There is a huge amount of risks involved in any kind of play for you and honestly unless planets align on a lucky sequence of crits you're not gonna achieve much... That's before we adress the elephant, in the room called TB, which is designed to stop literally the only thing Sorc is remarkably good at and even then it could be argued rsh/rsw/snipe engi/havoc magus do it better at nowhere near the downsides.


I personally like the idea of terribly unstable magics, which are as much of a boon as they are hinderance, however if i explode myself i want it to be a boom worth remembering that takes my enemies with me.

[Onigokko0101]

20%dmg nerf ON SOME BUT NOT ALL GUYS

It amounts to way more than a 20% damage nerf, since Sorc gets a massive critical damage bonus that is nerfed disproportionately through TB. Sorc skills are balanced around high crit chance/damage, which is why Sorc base damage on spells in some of the lowest. And that 12k burst you were babbling about; that's with all crits. In other words, TB decimates Sorc damage.

Further, FS has been a staple since forever, and TB is just vastly better and more reliable in a meta that is dominated by crit.

Sork doing its job and doing its well, u cant be zerorisk rdps capable of doing massive mass/solo dps and have bilion survive mechanics.

Except, it is not. It is one of the weakest classes in 6v6, and it in RvR it is completely overshadowed by melee classes like Choppa and Mara. Even BW is struggling in organized warband play, and BW has significantly better AoE than Sorc.

If you are going to argue otherwise, please share your builds and rotations to lend your arguments some credibility.

Snare silence disarm root detaunt. U have a lot.

Ok, lets compare.

Magus: snare (including a 60% snare), knockdown, detaunt, disarm, root, stagger, knockback.

SH: snare, disarm (4 secs), silence (4 secs), knockdown, detaunt, snare and selfpunt, sprint + run away tactic, leap

Shaman: punt + snare, 60% puddle snare, detaunt + aoe detaunt, run away tactic, silence (5 secs), AP drain, ailment cleanse


And I could of course do the exact same thing for the Order classes and it would make it painfully clear that Sorc does not "have a lot".

And what does Sorc have to show for this? The mythical "12k burst" that does not actually work on anything that is remotely organized.

Yeah TB feels so shitty on Sorcs who absolutely needed that extra crit damage. Even without TB Sorc was not top tier or even close, it was playable and a good player can make it decent.

Atleast BW has Funnel Power to fall back on with the crit nerf

[Naelar]

BW has a self cleanse, too. Sorc doesn't.

[Onigokko0101]

BW has a self cleanse, too. Sorc doesn't.

Another true fact. Only time Sorc is more then decent imo is when paired with a Magus to debuff their damage.

[kak932]

I main a BW/Sorc (or did). The recent dmg nerf was the final straw for me. Shelfing them for a while... Slowly felt more useless over time.

They just don't do anything better than any of the other classes at the moment and certainly cannot escape or kite.

[Magusar]

Sorc dont need HD in that form, what bw have (bw too), and have core disarm, here no problem with cc.
Play with fire and Gloom of Night just 2 bad skills in that form what we have. Decrease cd to 10 sec and lower AP cost for Play with Fire would help, but dont see this in concept of class. Rework Gloom of Night to something like slayer's ID and share for both classes (potential solving tunnel problems or one more tool for realization dmg, because problem of nonrealization u dmg is the scourge of BW/Sorc), looks much better.There are many solutions.

[sighy]

Sorc dont need HD in that form, what bw have (bw too), and have core disarm, here no problem with cc.
Play with fire and Gloom of Night just 2 bad skills in that form what we have. Decrease cd to 10 sec and lower AP cost for Play with Fire would help, but dont see this in concept of class. Rework Gloom of Night to something like slayer's ID and share for both classes (potential solving tunnel problems or one more tool for realization dmg, because problem of nonrealization u dmg is the scourge of BW/Sorc), looks much better.There are many solutions.

Technically Shades of Death does a similar thing to funnel power, except waaaaaay worse. (reocurring theme with sorcs lol)

Cauterise, Burn Through, Fan the Flames baseline, Wildfire/Lingering Flames, Fireball Barage. Stop, Drop and Roll, Backdraft, all of the m4s, Smoldering Embers, Sield of Aqshy and Flashfire could all also fit in the category of Sorcs don't have it at all or have a way inferior variant.

[Magusar]

Sorc dont need HD in that form, what bw have (bw too), and have core disarm, here no problem with cc.
Play with fire and Gloom of Night just 2 bad skills in that form what we have. Decrease cd to 10 sec and lower AP cost for Play with Fire would help, but dont see this in concept of class. Rework Gloom of Night to something like slayer's ID and share for both classes (potential solving tunnel problems or one more tool for realization dmg, because problem of nonrealization u dmg is the scourge of BW/Sorc), looks much better.There are many solutions.

Technically Shades of Death does a similar thing to funnel power, except waaaaaay worse. (reocurring theme with sorcs lol)

Cauterise, Burn Through, Fan the Flames baseline, Wildfire/Lingering Flames, Fireball Barage. Stop, Drop and Roll, Backdraft, all of the m4s, Smoldering Embers, Sield of Aqshy and Flashfire could all also fit in the category of Sorcs don't have it at all or have a way inferior variant.

This is also true for BW: corp dmg with shadow of disaster, core disarm, swell of gloom etc...
This is not the point of my post. Ppl asking for thing, which dont help them. And partly of my point was "this 2 classes not in good place,even before the patch, they are both bad".(I have a full sov bw and sorc) TB just was a control shot in head.

[merfp27]

The entire Agony line is based off Shades of Death being a hard hitting proc. SoD only triggers off direct damage and every single spell in the line except Doombolt has a CD.
Other than Swell of Gloom, the tactics in the tree do nothing to supplement the core abilities or add anything extra to the speccables. And the way Swell of Gloom functions, just further adds to the point of SoD being the bread and butter of the tree.

Echo of Power should work like Flashfire, or at the very least hit tremendously hard for having a disrupt prerequisite and 5sec CD.

Impending Doom is the only thing worth a damn in the Agony line..

[adamska2]

Sorc need pounce