Patch Notes 20/05/2021

[Alucard2010]

waaagh was equivalent to WW, chop fasta is to counter shatter limbs..... removing waagh but keeping WW makes 0 sense......... very disappointing patch many of the nerfs are unnecessary.

MSH has shatter limbs equivalent as well. Destro netted one more CD reducer than order. Now it’s even

Skillwise it is even, by having both these abilities. But there is still a huge difference when they are placed on different archtypes.

Order now brings CDR and CDI on 2 classes that can work together and an added bonus you have aoe interrupt aswell.
Destro has to bring 4 classes for the same affect mSH and choppa and 2 guard bots on top of that.

So there might be balance in these specific abilities, but no way there is balance in composition. With this patch if 2 equal skilled wb goes head to head order wins 100% time.

Great point - I agree w/ you on this. We are evened out on CDR/CDI (cooldown reduce/cooldown increase), but the compositional requirements are more harsh on Destro. What about taking MSH CDI and giving it to blorc? This gives the yin/yang effect that makes this game unique and many of us like. Tank Archtypes counter eachother, DPS archtypes counter eachother. Both sides get 1 of each and its mirrored opposite the archtypes.

[Dondabon]

I don't know what was discussed internally. I wasn't there. But from what the RCs who were vocal so far talked, it doesn't sound like there was much opposition. Either that or the balance team didn't really care what RCs had to say. Wargrimnir is on record for saying in the last Q&A that he doesn't agree with the BO having CDR. Now it seems his vision is reality.

Of course there wasn't much opposition. Did you see main criteria for choosing Champs in the first place? Never say anything that devs don't like. And if you do you get kicked from the team it seems.
Also from what was said here it seems number of posts on the matter is much more important then quality - if you post 100 "yes man" posts you are providing much more then 5 posts with arguments you are for/against something.

I said things I didn’t agree or concerns on certain things on draft notes. No one said you get kicked for it. People got kicked for inactivity and replaced with people that started getting involved immediately.

Devs had zero involvement in our RC posts and would just review it after a month. As they mentioned, they can choose to listen to things or not afterwards.

They can easily tell you I was honest on what’s good or bad. Some of the stuff didn’t go through after concerns and some still did.

There doesn’t need to be opposition, this isn’t a fight. We’re all balancing the same game still and it’s not like a certain RC can only talk about one realm. Both were spoken of since we had a list of focus items they wanted discussed. I gathered plenty of information and data from destro players too.

I fully agree with you, as order champion you did great job! As future order player I am very grateful for inputs you and other champs gave.
Keep up the good work, next in line should be DOK, they are too good (even better then WP, that can't be tolerated!!)

[forsa]

Great point - I agree w/ you on this. We are evened out on CDR/CDI (cooldown reduce/cooldown increase), but the compositional requirements are more harsh on Destro. What about taking MSH CDI and giving it to blorc? This gives the yin/yang effect that makes this game unique and many of us like. Tank Archtypes counter eachother, DPS archtypes counter eachother. Both sides get 1 of each and its mirrored opposite the archtypes.

BO already has CDI that requires no tactics, albeit st one.

[Akalukz]

waaagh was equivalent to WW, chop fasta is to counter shatter limbs..... removing waagh but keeping WW makes 0 sense......... very disappointing patch many of the nerfs are unnecessary.

MSH has shatter limbs equivalent as well. Destro netted one more CD reducer than order. Now it’s even

They removed the CD reducer from the wrong class on destro.

[Alucard2010]

Great point - I agree w/ you on this. We are evened out on CDR/CDI (cooldown reduce/cooldown increase), but the compositional requirements are more harsh on Destro. What about taking MSH CDI and giving it to blorc? This gives the yin/yang effect that makes this game unique and many of us like. Tank Archtypes counter eachother, DPS archtypes counter eachother. Both sides get 1 of each and its mirrored opposite the archtypes.

BO already has CDI that requires no tactics, albeit st one.

Perfect! So there is already a skill slot to put it on. Remove from SH, make blorc st skill into aoe.

One other thing to think on....shatter limbs on slayer drops rage, chop fasta does not. Both should function the same as it directly correlates to damage output. shatter limbs shouldn’t drop rage or chop fasta should drop rage.

[Haskr]

of course thats balance, im a healing archmage (and a pretty bad one at best ) yet i could do any content i wanted, because if there is no healer to join, every party will take archmage before they get no pop in city, or get no dungeon run, or get no ranked sc or whatever

you are supposed to be leveling an ironbreaker !!!

well i DID try, until level 10 or so, but what can I say, it wasnt really fun. I mean, dwarf, tiny, stinky, its just no fun

[forsa]

Perfect! So there is already a skill slot to put it on. Remove from SH, make blorc st skill into aoe.

One other thing to think on....shatter limbs on slayer drops rage, chop fasta does not. Both should function the same as it directly correlates to damage output. shatter limbs shouldn’t drop rage or chop fasta should drop rage.

Actually not a bad idea.
Swap Not In Da Face with Waaagh!, make it aoe.
BO is again go-to tank.

[Akalukz]

Great point - I agree w/ you on this. We are evened out on CDR/CDI (cooldown reduce/cooldown increase), but the compositional requirements are more harsh on Destro. What about taking MSH CDI and giving it to blorc? This gives the yin/yang effect that makes this game unique and many of us like. Tank Archtypes counter eachother, DPS archtypes counter eachother. Both sides get 1 of each and its mirrored opposite the archtypes.

BO already has CDI that requires no tactics, albeit st one.

tactic to make it AoE?

[Alucard2010]

Great point - I agree w/ you on this. We are evened out on CDR/CDI (cooldown reduce/cooldown increase), but the compositional requirements are more harsh on Destro. What about taking MSH CDI and giving it to blorc? This gives the yin/yang effect that makes this game unique and many of us like. Tank Archtypes counter eachother, DPS archtypes counter eachother. Both sides get 1 of each and its mirrored opposite the archtypes.

BO already has CDI that requires no tactics, albeit st one.

tactic to make it AoE?

Honestly, this depends on how you want to balance out the "Cost" of the utility between each of the classes.....

SMs need to burn perfect balance
Slayers need to drop rage
Choppas - just click a button......this is an issue I pointed out above.
Blorc Should they require a tactic? Should they burn their version of perfect balance?

[Tabelrel]

Just a few of thoughts, not about the individual balance changes themselves but the overall process of getting there.

Firstly, they say that justice shouldn't only be done but be seen to be done and I think here with this specific patch and the various comments from the RC's the process may not have worked as intended. While the discussions between the RC's themselves or RC's and devs shouldn't be a free for all for everyone to chip in on I think its important that those discussions should be visible to the community so they can feed back to their relevant RC's. Perhaps in that respect the discussions should be published on a forum topic, but only the RC's can post to it but allows the community to read and feed back privately to the RC's their views.

Secondly, so all these balance changes can be put in some sort of context what is the strategy that the RC's/Devs are working too. What is your end game idea guys that you are trying to achieve? If people understood a bit better where you are trying to get to I think that would add a bit of context. I personally would be sad to see a strategy where we try to perfectly mirror everything as wasn't that the unique point of AoR/RoR.

Thirdly, is this too much all at once and paraphrasing one of Bomblings comments the time is a bit awkward re the state of Destro. I can understand that constant weekly sprints is alot for a group of volunteer devs, hats off to them for doing it I wouldn't want to do it as you need a life outside RoR for sure. Although we also need to avoid the AoR situation where big changes are made on an infrequent basis and classes or the peoples perception of their class being broken and staying broken for a long period of time just turns them off the game and they never return. That ties back to the first two points of transparency and overall strategy.