So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

[vobex16]

Ok, bring it back then. I'm comfortable with either decision. Gotta say though:

I'm a bad player, got <1.0 DB ratio on most of my chars and my max MMR ratio is around 1450 (with an alt though). I've noticed I kill more now, not kidding and I believe NB automatizes many things it should not, like attacking from behind or removing buffs, etc. Just the day before it got "blocked" I discovered how to attack from behind though, that means I've not used it extensively but having said on other post it was borderline cheating:

1) it helps folks with disabilities.
2) it also helps more casual/lazy players or more hardcore ones.
3) it cannot be enterely blocked so It will be available one way or another, privately.
4) Looks like you have no means in detecting macro software (despite having our client executed w/ admin privileges) so the result is about the same.
5) Our already declining population will decrease even more.

Given those 5 points, RoR staff should consider bringing it back. The first and third points probably being the most important ones on this topic.

I agree on all the points, I could add a few more, but I have already voiced them in my posts. With respect. The fifth point... is already in effect.

[Tosher85]

Can confirm I've heard talks about certain groups of people having access to an altered NB that still works.

Certain groups of ppl=everyone that actually read forum.
Check page 27 of last patchnotes to get the instruction on how make NB work again. It's not an altenate version

Exactly this is what this topic is about. Not about if it is good or bad thing to block NB or how it can influence on population or rumors and disinformation about "cheating, avoiding something etc.".

[Talladego]

Can confirm I've heard talks about certain groups of people having access to an altered NB that still works.

Certain groups of ppl=everyone that actually read forum.
Check page 27 of last patchnotes to get the instruction on how make NB work again. It's not an altenate version

Or the comments on the download page here:
https://tools.idrinth.de/addons/nerfedbuttons/

[saupreusse]

I do believe some people are making much more of a drama out of this than it actually is
I've been using NB on a lot of my chars (mainly for simple macroing, but ofc i also had a few conditional checks) and I don't feel like its such a big deal to play without it now that its gone.
I'd really like to use a macro addon like cast sequencer, because I simply can't be arsed in 2021 to have 20 different skills on my taskbar (and I'm a pianist) .
Overall I don't think there are really a lot of people that are going to quit just because NB is gone now...
It took me 10 minutes to rearrange my taskbar yesterday.
The impact on your gameplay isn't that huge and all the horror stories some ppl tell (like removing GCD or getting banned for it on live - LOL!) are just fake news :^)
(Ofc theres a lot of cheese you can do with it, like auto cancelling enemy channels with taunt - and thats why its probably for the better that its gone)

[steelblade93]

Actually I must disagree.
I suffer with severe carpel tunnel syndrome and mostly played turned based games. Being a huge warhammer fan I also love AOR/ROR.
On live I was forced to play with a flight control stick to be able to move, on ROR i disovered NB which allowed me to actually play the game reasonably okay. (pitch down no longer ran forwards) Ive since created 8 toons almost all at 40 and joined a guild and broughlt my daughter along to play also.
With this change unfortuntly I cannot continue to play, its very disappointing.
For all of you saying how much more powerful NB makes a player it doesent really.
Firstly, everyone can use it. I was introdueced to it fairly early on by a player suggesting it could help me.
Before I used it I really could'nt do much more than use 2/3 abilities.
Needless to say that was pretty dull.
(I made a chosen my main for minimum button pressing)
NB allowed me to use the extra characters, which was great.
You do NOT beat good players by using NB.
Most of my guild doesnt use it. They all out perform me significantly.
I lose the majoirty of my fights despite my spells being sequenced.
I feel this change is to cater to the best players/ranked.
With NB removed less people will be queuing for higher end content because they feel they cannot compete.
I just went through the discords of six different guilds. Each one has people posting about how they are leaving/taking a break. 2-3 players each on average. They have cited this change as the reason.
I think that people will be more incentified now to use macro devices etc to try and recapture what NB was doing.
The people who use it like myself don't want to be condemmed as cheaters, or scum etc. Especially when we usually lose anyway.

I have noticed a signifcant performance drop in some classes in terms of heal/dmg output. Also a significant drop in the player population. It's a pity to literally be forced out of the game. I don't want to stop playing, but this literally makes it impossible. The people that say "git gud" don't understand what it is like to have your keyboard feel like a nest of thorns.
Try imagining putting upside down drawing pins on each of your keys then say it isnt that hard to hit 25+ keys.
Also 300 messages of shitposting against the people that use the addon just makes you look like jerks.
No, NB doesnt allow you to use multiple abilities, or avoid cooldowns. its one key, one ability. that's it.
As for the conditionals that isnt very useful either in any serious fight as its too situational.
I hope they will consider reversing this change, as i'd love to carry on playing. Obviously as some people leave or are forced out thier friends will go with them as my daughter (who doesnt use NB) doesnt want to play on without me.
I doubt theres a decent player on here that hasnt killed my chracters at least 30 times to 1.
Was it really such a big thing to take away the only way I could join in so you could brag your numbers were "real" or "legit"?
I'd have thought killing me over and over was way more fun, oh well.
Also a truely good player can easily beat a NB player once they know his sequence as they can just exploit it against him because they know exactly what hes going to be doing next.
Many NB players use the same sequences taughlt to them by thier guildies. They are not hard to spot.
To highlight the severeity of the issue my toons cant actually "jump" without remapping the CTRL key.
So half the time in game I can't actually jump. That becomes an issue on some battlegrounds/scenarios.

[marafado]

better call sau
i understant why some players like "fun" servers, can be demoralized to go play cs or sc2 and land your feets in the ground

my 2 silvers: if somehow the ror staff can pass the message they wana make the transition from a fun to a proper rvr server, i believe there will be many more players joining than the ones that leave. dont forget many old aor players not here because off all the "fun" of ror was/is!

[steelblade93]

better call sau
i understant why some players like "fun" servers, can be demoralized to go play cs or sc2 and land your feets in the ground

my 2 silvers: if somehow the ror staff can pass the message they wana make the transition from a fun to a proper rvr server, i believe there will be many more players joining than the ones that leave. dont forget many old aor players not here because off all the "fun" of ror was/is!

Honestly I think the people that are really competitive and want a "proper rvr" server are more likely to go play a modern korean game where the competition is really fierice and there are a ton of classes.
I think much of the playerbase for ROR are people who love warhammer/here for fun/reliving nostalgia and its basically the only way to play warhammer fantasy online.

[roadkillrobin]

1: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experience skill level player with NB = Higher experience skills wins.

2: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. higher experience skill level player with NB = Minimal impact on the outcome. I'd say individual skill 99%, NB 1%.

3: Higher experience skilled level player with NB vs. lower experience skill level player without NB = High skill wins nonetheless.

4: Lower experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experience skill level player with NB = NB may affect the outcome

Given these hypothetical situations, that pretty much only affects a player base who's most likely not experienced enough to be able to determine if of they are playing against someone with this addon, I find it rather astounding that so much energy are put into the removal of an addon that does fix a heap of clumsy class mechanics and combat designs, as well as can help people with real life physical and material challenges.

Your computer setup have a drastic more impact on the outcome of any fight then this addon does. MMORPG mouse, foot pedal, reliability of ISP, RAM, CPU, GPU for hardware lag minimization. The size of your hands and fingers give better range span to keep fingers on movement keys, while pushing SHIFT/CTRL+ ability keys.

The philosophy on what an addon is allowed to do is an interesting one. In my opinion NB doesn't give enough advantage to validate a ban. If it would push a mediocre player to the level of a higher experience one I would agree, but it doesn't. Spatial awareness (excluding enemy facing due to ping) is the most determine factor of combat if you're solo, in a group or a warband. Banning NB is simply taking away a tool, that's available for everyone that feel they need it, that fixes issues with both class mechanics and player issues without creating any real imbalances.

[steelblade93]

1: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experiences skill level player with NB = Higher experience skills wins.

2: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. higher experiences skill level player with NB = Minimal impact on the outcome. I'd say individual skill 99%, NB 1%.

3: Higher experience skilled level player with NB vs. lower experiences skill level player without NB = High skill wins nonetheless.

4: Lower experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experiences skill level player with NB = NB may affect the outcome

Given these hypothetical situations, that pretty much only affects a player base who's most likely not experienced enough to be able to determine if of they are playing against someone with this addon, I find it rather astounding that so much energy are put into the removal of an addon that does fix a heap of clumsy class mechanics and combat designs, as well as can help people with real life physical and material challenges.

Your computer setup have a drastic more impact on the outcome of any fight then this addon does. MMORPG mouse, foot pedal, reliability of ISP, RAM, CPU, GPU for hardware lag minimization. The size of your hands and fingers give better range span to keep fingers on movement keys, while pushing SHIFT/CTRL+ ability keys.

The philosophy on what an addon is allowed to do is an interesting one. In my opinion NB doesn't give enough advantage to validate a ban. If it would push a mediocre player to the level of a higher experience one I would agree, but it doesn't. Spatial awareness (excluding enemy facing due to ping) is the most determine factor of combat if you're solo, in a group or a warband. Banning NB is simply taking away a tool, that's available for everyone that feel they need it, that fixes issues with both class mechanics and player issues without creating any real imbalances.

I think thats pretty much spot on. Ignoring the fact the ban literally prevents some people from carrying on.

[NoliTimere]

Spoiler:

1: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experience skill level player with NB = Higher experience skills wins.

2: Higher experience skilled level player without NB vs. higher experience skill level player with NB = Minimal impact on the outcome. I'd say individual skill 99%, NB 1%.

3: Higher experience skilled level player with NB vs. lower experience skill level player without NB = High skill wins nonetheless.

4: Lower experience skilled level player without NB vs. lower experience skill level player with NB = NB may affect the outcome

Given these hypothetical situations, that pretty much only affects a player base who's most likely not experienced enough to be able to determine if of they are playing against someone with this addon, I find it rather astounding that so much energy are put into the removal of an addon that does fix a heap of clumsy class mechanics and combat designs, as well as can help people with real life physical and material challenges.

Your computer setup have a drastic more impact on the outcome of any fight then this addon does. MMORPG mouse, foot pedal, reliability of ISP, RAM, CPU, GPU for hardware lag minimization. The size of your hands and fingers give better range span to keep fingers on movement keys, while pushing SHIFT/CTRL+ ability keys.

The philosophy on what an addon is allowed to do is an interesting one. In my opinion NB doesn't give enough advantage to validate a ban. If it would push a mediocre player to the level of a higher experience one I would agree, but it doesn't. Spatial awareness (excluding enemy facing due to ping) is the most determine factor of combat if you're solo, in a group or a warband. Banning NB is simply taking away a tool, that's available for everyone that feel they need it, that fixes issues with both class mechanics and player issues without creating any real imbalances.

I agree completely