Patch Notes 28/05/2021

[Earthcake]

And everyone whos saying that NB is an unfair advantage is also a liar (since it was available to everybody).

I'll say it again, maybe some will read it this time :
Ppl in favor of more tactical playstyle will be in favor of removing NB and will lie to prove they are right.
Ppl in favor of more strategic playstyle will be in favor of NB and lie to prove they are right.

And the CC immunity checks weren't working, which you should know if you weren't lying about NB

[Tosher85]

What missinformation man? You pulling a tendon rip for 5 keys? Most classes dont require that many keybinds anyways, and yes its a cheating addon, its not quality of life. I know how it works and i have seen it work in ranked, when a certain player streamed. He pressed max 2 buttons, while severing/CCing, using positionals, without thinking, just spam the darn NB button, plus sequencing, firing up your rotation without pressure, no human error. How in the world do you call yourself a pvper when the addon does half the job.

What classes do you play? I can only think of a few that are that mindless, and I have gotten most to 40.

When someone says they know how something works and seen it done while someone is streaming it is as laughable as my 14 year old say she knows how the car works and has seen us drive so she should be able to. The car really does half the work.

For you to say NB does half the job without ever using it is pretty ballsy. 90% of "the job" is finding the right target, and assisting or doing your class job. Certain classes positioning on the battlefield is critical. NB just helps you with the combos when you decide what to do, provided you (not someone else) have set up your rotations properly. It doesn't "drive" for you, and doesn't guarantee the optimal ability.

For you to be playing since 2018 and not even try NB is telling.

You are selectively reading my post i see, you missed the part where i checked the addon out and also i said that iv seen people playing in RANKED with the addon, they where streaming and you can easly see the effects, more than one dude was streaming with NB, i saw enough of how it works, besides knowing all the functions, which include: conditional checks (fire the best ability for the best situation, including intrerupting channels), sequencer (fire up your rotation without stress or human error). If all this is normal for you, o boy, how do you play other games where you cant cheat with an addon like this? Yes alot of mmos have macros but none of those do what NB does, not even close. Again how do you even call yourself a pvper when the addon does the job for you?

Oh.. i saw a youtube video and now i know how to build an engine. Cheting means you r useing something that illegal, mb a mistake with picking the word, i dunno. Every addon gives advantage, that is the main point. And if u r choosing not use something that is avaliable its you own way/problem(if you feel like this). So use it and dont whine or dont use it and dont whine. Overall NB is not working the way u discribing(due to a lack of knowlege). I wonder who is spreding this kind of things like NB = cheating, NB = Aimbot etc.? I bet we all know this person.

P.S. Ppl will always try to find excuses for there lose, like Infernal wave, Bane shield, Rampage(still holding =) ), NB etc. Nothing changes.

[Sprak]

NB plays the game for you, if you set it up right. Conditions did work, and they worked well. Ever wonder why people are randomly punting enemies away when it makes no sense? Ever wonder why some players instantly break snares/slows without any response/reaction time? Ever been in a sc or rvr and have an individual knocking you down, staggering, or punting you with perfect timing to your immunity timers? How about its ability to apply the perfect number of stacks of a skill, then swapping to the next useful skill, only to swap back to maintain stacks when necessary?

NB's absolutely took any thought process, response and/or reaction time out of the equation. It removes some (not all) player error, and effortlessly helps a player set up the best conditions possible to maximize their efficiency.

I'm not against sequencers at all, and ROR team or someone should develop a sequencer in place of NB's. Having X # of action bars filled with skills, each with their own specific key bind, ends up deteriorating the gaming experience. Playing then becomes more of a chore/inconvenience/hassle, without adding anything positive or fun to the experience.

But to say NB's didn't/or couldn't give an individual a legitimate huge advantage over someone else, or that because it was available to everyone to use, which makes it okay, is very disingenuous.

[Moert]

I keep seeing arguments along the lines of "NB wasn't unfair because it was available to everyone". Many players don't want the game to be trivialized, which in essence is what the addon does. NB makes the game much easier to play, if everyone used NB it would lower the skill ceiling and raise the skill floor of the game significantly.

I am surprised that people struggle with keybinds, I imagine it's mostly people who have gotten used to NB for years and never put any effort into binding their skills separately. It will take a bit of time to get used to keybinds, until the muscle memory kicks in but it's not that challenging really. The global cooldown is very forgiving in this game, it's not like you have to be lightning fast pushing your keybinds.


I'll share how I do my keybinds, incase it can help someone. I use a logitech G403 mouse with two tumb buttons. In my mouse software I have the thumb buttons on the mouse bound to shift and alt when I play MMORPG's, so I use those as modifier keys. For movement I use ESDF instead of the standard WASD, mostly to gain access to more easily accesible keys next to my movement keys.

The keys I find easily accessible keybinds are: 123456qwazxcvbnrtg< and space. All of those are also useable with the 'modifier thumb buttons' on my mouse, so that's a total of 60 possible keybinds. I use my left pinky and thumb for many of my most used skills that get spammed a lot, instead of the number keys which I see a lot of people use for those. In my country we have a key between z and left shift which is <, z and < get used with my pinky. I use v,b,n and space with my thumb.

[krakatoag]

Spoiler:

NB plays the game for you, if you set it up right. Conditions did work, and they worked well. Ever wonder why people are randomly punting enemies away when it makes no sense? Ever wonder why some players instantly break snares/slows without any response/reaction time? Ever been in a sc or rvr and have an individual knocking you down, staggering, or punting you with perfect timing to your immunity timers? How about its ability to apply the perfect number of stacks of a skill, then swapping to the next useful skill, only to swap back to maintain stacks when necessary?

NB's absolutely took any thought process, response and/or reaction time out of the equation. It removes some (not all) player error, and effortlessly helps a player set up the best conditions possible to maximize their efficiency.

I'm not against sequencers at all, and ROR team or someone should develop a sequencer in place of NB's. Having X # of action bars filled with skills, each with their own specific key bind, ends up deteriorating the gaming experience. Playing then becomes more of a chore/inconvenience/hassle, without adding anything positive or fun to the experience.

But to say NB's didn't/or couldn't give an individual a legitimate huge advantage over someone else, or that because it was available to everyone to use, which makes it okay, is very disingenuous.

Wish they would reinstate NB back for 15 mins so I could make a video proving all of this wrong. For like the 50th time amongst all these posts these boogeyman conditionals of checking for unstoppable, immovable, etc didn't work/were not functional.

All it takes to do the aforementioned above is a properly set up buffhead and the power of two human eyes. Literally anyone with punts on a nerfed button rotation was usually doing it wrong and if anything was being a detriment to their group. Wonder why you saw shitty SMs and BOs aoe punting at random? It is because they were TRYING to use these conditionals on their bars and they didn't work, usually screwing over their group and their side in the process of a fight.

Anyone who used interrupts, punts, knockdowns, silences or any form of CC on nerfed buttons was doing it wrong and more often than not was doing you a favor as a combatant.

[NSKaneda]

And everyone whos saying that NB is an unfair advantage is also a liar (since it was available to everybody).

I'll say it again, maybe some will read it this time :
Ppl in favor of more tactical playstyle will be in favor of removing NB and will lie to prove they are right.
Ppl in favor of more strategic playstyle will be in favor of NB and lie to prove they are right.

And the CC immunity checks weren't working, which you should know if you weren't lying about NB

I think Saupreusse gave enough examples why it could be considered unfair advantage to use it over those who don't. And just because I don't use it doesn't mean I haven't tested it - I played with NB for three months on my slayer back on Karak Norn - and rotating CC, group buffs and debuffs have never been easier. On the other hand I couldn't react the way I wanted because of set rotations and slowly started forgetting what skill had which effect because it was only a part of a sequence. At first I got rid of rotation strings and kept it for conditional checks on shatter limb, heal debuff and upkeep on group buffs for some time but since I was duelling A LOT in Eataine at the time and I respected Darkdeadly too much to rely on training wheels I ultimately stopped using it altogether.

I did check NB when I installed RoR years back (it was in addons folder) and those conditional checks still worked for me - I did want to see what I was up against. I certainly did see it's effects in the lakes over the years - perfect time stamps. Perfect CC rotations resulting in complete shut-downs. For some reason heal debuffs and taunts were excluded from the list
As a tool for making rotations easier cast sequencers are OK in my book - it's a tool that will limit players, not enhance them - their reactions will always be predetermined and thus easy to counter. Sure, rotations will be cast faster and with machine accuracy but that's nothing good positioning and interrupt game can't handle. PlanB with it's action bar swapping is just making QoL better - and changing colour of skills or giving them shiny indicators is just a way of enhancing stuff already in game (greyed out / saturated effect). But if it's checking for pre-determined conditions to block or allow player to use a skill then it's taking it too far.

You say CC immunity checks weren't working - I wouldn't go as far as to call you a liar - my experience on the receiving end has been different. And it sure changed after NB ban. It's possible that it can be my cognitive bias since I'm looking into things with knowledge based on my experience with NB all those years back and see the signs of someone using it. One thing's for sure: since NB ban fights slowed down but people started reacting more in terms of positioning and synergy: it seems like that initial shock of having so many skills forced people to read what they do and use them accordingly. I see a lot more group buffs used to tip the scales. Much more peeling and, surprise surprise, snb tanks. WHs and WEs are still deadly, WLs still can shut a gobbo down, slayer/ib combo is as deadly as ever. And while I rejoice this change I understand why people go out of their way to get the addon back - and I really hope that some form of cast sequencer without conditional checks will appear soon. This however is just my opinion and while I rejoice Devs decision I respected (albeit begrudgingly) them allowing NB before - I have no pull on this.

//
(playing with vanilla UI is hardcore level 9000 - I love my enemy, buffhead and pure too much to do this )

[Mordd]

all the arguments really come down to one thing. Is it worth losing a large percentage of the few players left to take out an add on that has been in the game since near launch. We are near a point in NA time where losing many more people will cascade into many more leaving due to no one to fight. This game requires a certain amount of players active to work and be fun. Is it worth Killing the server so Dalen and Gravord can flex in Ranked.

No one was quiting over NB being in game anyone that would have done that quit during live. People are quiting over its removal. What percentage of an already small population is this worth.

[Tosher85]

And everyone whos saying that NB is an unfair advantage is also a liar (since it was available to everybody).

I'll say it again, maybe some will read it this time :
Ppl in favor of more tactical playstyle will be in favor of removing NB and will lie to prove they are right.
Ppl in favor of more strategic playstyle will be in favor of NB and lie to prove they are right.

And the CC immunity checks weren't working, which you should know if you weren't lying about NB

I think Saupreusse gave enough examples why it could be considered unfair advantage to use it over those who don't.

First thing is - no he didnt(hes statements r wrong). Second one is that it was a metter of personal choise to use it or not.

[zarlemagne]

I'll share how I do my keybinds, incase it can help someone. I use a logitech G403 mouse with two tumb buttons. In my mouse software I have the thumb buttons on the mouse bound to shift and alt when I play MMORPG's, so I use those as modifier keys. For movement I use ESDF instead of the standard WASD, mostly to gain access to more easily accesible keys next to my movement keys.

The keys I find easily accessible keybinds are: 123456qwazxcvbnrtg< and space. All of those are also useable with the 'modifier thumb buttons' on my mouse, so that's a total of 60 possible keybinds. I use my left pinky and thumb for many of my most used skills that get spammed a lot, instead of the number keys which I see a lot of people use for those. In my country we have a key between z and left shift which is <, z and < get used with my pinky. I use v,b,n and space with my thumb.

Good for you but not everyone can do that:

A long Long time ago I used to use ESDF as my movement keys
But a lot of older games had WASD hard coded as their movement keys, so I swapped and now due to the fact that:
(a) I've used those keys for 30+ years, so can't be bother to spend months relearning hand placement etc for 1 game and
(b) I still play some of those games occasionally (/nostalgia mode on)

1-5 I use for thing like mount and pots, Q,E,R,T I use for targeting, F for Swift Assist, C for Auto loot

I do have an MMO mouse and have but can only reliably use 9 of the 12 buttons
So with Shift that give me 18 reliable buttons, with possibly another 9, if I can be bothered to spend months (remember I'm an old Codger) learning to use Ctrl with my pinky. Even so I will have just over half the number you do.

Just wish I had a programable keyboard so I could macro my pots

[zarlemagne]

oops double post