[Destruction] 6 Man Composition?

[EuphoricAnguish]

My friends and I are new to the server (Phoenix DAoC transfers) and are going to play on Destruction.

What would the best 6 man scenario group be for leveling up and at end-game?

EDIT:
We were thinking a melee ball...
...do we run one healer or two?
...do we run two tanks, one for peeling and another for guarding the melee DPS?
...do we run one healer and one tank, with four melee DPS?
...do we run two healers and one tank who bounces from front to back lines?

If not a melee ball, do we run full caster, or hybrid with one tank, one healer, and two of each DPS type?

[ashton007]

Ideally you always need 2tank/2heal/2dps, this is the meta setup for a 6 man. I would love to see something like BG/chosen or BO/Witch elf/melee dok/zealot heals/shield dok.

[nonfactor]

bg chosen tanks and dok zealot heals

dps up to preference

avoid bo and shaman

[EuphoricAnguish]

avoid bo and shaman

Why is that? Our Order friends told us that Black Orc and Shaman were the two most broken examples of their archetypes.

[arturziomas]

Shammy is very good when he has choppa with chop fasta (-5s cd reduction buff. shammy's fury of the green becomes 0cd with that and is very powerful). BO got nerfed quite hard few patches back, lost it's -cd reduction buff and is currently considered the worst tank.

For optimal 6 man I would go 2 dps doks 2 heal doks chosen and bg

[Omegus]

avoid bo and shaman

Why is that? Our Order friends told us that Black Orc and Shaman were the two most broken examples of their archetypes.

Shamans tend to excel in tiny groups when roaming or in warbands. For 6-mans the type of tools they bring don't seem to be as good/effective compared to the other class options available. There's always some top-tier player who manages to make thing work regardless of course. DoKs and Zealots pair very well together, with the Zealot increasing the healing received by the group as a whole which works well with the DoK's good group healing, and the Zealot brings strong single-target healing, damage-absorbing effects and a 6 second single target stagger (stun that breaks on damage) which when timed on healer can win you fights in smaller scale situations.

A lot of the Shaman's effectiveness comes from being good at kiting or for having access to a very strong AoE heal, neither of which are as useful for a 6-man in scenarios compared to the other options.

As for Black Orcs, one of the most important tools for a tank in a 6-man is a strong single-target knockback to get rid of enemy tanks using Guard. The Black Orc does not have access to this ability. It does get an AoE knock-back but the knock-back range is much lower so can't be used to effectively remove specific targets from the fight, and it hands out CC immunities to everyone hit which prevents further attempts to isolate other players.

Single target knock-back to remove a tank, stagger to remove a healer (and the Zealot can try to silence a second healer if feeling fancy), and now you're scoring kills.

[EuphoricAnguish]

Thanks for the help; especially the in-depth explanation and tactical stuff, very informative.

[CyunUnderis]

Chosen, SH, Sorcerer, WE (or Mara), Shaman and Zealot is also a good composition : high burst, good mobility and utility (drain AP, stagger, aoe snare, ...)

[Nefarian78]

avoid bo and shaman

Why is that? Our Order friends told us that Black Orc and Shaman were the two most broken examples of their archetypes.

You shouldn't take what 99% of people say on the forum seriously. Especially when it comes to 6v6 balance as most people just tag along and zerg in RvR or think ranked sc is an actual 6v6.

No, Black Orc And Shaman are not good for 6v6, especially Black Orcs.

6v6 either relies on brute forcing kills through guard in different ways (AP drain meta, double slayer meta) or bursting a target in 2 GCDs and a half before the enemy team has time to use Distracting Bellow or switch guard, or do it quickly enough that when the guard switch happened you have a kill condition opened through morale.

Black Orcs bring neither the burst damage of a BG, nor a single target punt, nor the utility or survivability of those 2 classes. The only thing the class brings is a form of half sustained, half burst damage through Three Hit Combo. Black Orcs were okay in 6v6 when the destro meta was DpsDok-WE/Msquig in Invader/early Sov times, in which the BO used SnB and the kill condition was morale dropping coupled with AP drains against double slayer. BO brought Arm Breaka (One if not THE weakest ability in the game, but it doesn't matter once you reach AP draining critical mass) and morale drain through clobber which resulted in the destro team getting to morales first most of the time.

I haven't played much at all lately, but the meta has shifted from morale dropping to once again bursting targets in a couple GCDs after a punt has went off. Black Orcs have absolutely nothing useful they bring to the table compared to Chosens and Blackguards, especially in such meta.

Shamans have too always been in a difficult spot when it comes 6v6, with the exception of some extremely niche cases. Perhaps some shamans will be able to explain precisely why (Outside of listing the most obvious reasons), i'm not experienced enough with one in 6v6 to do that.

[Cimba]

I haven't played much at all lately, but the meta has shifted from morale dropping to once again bursting targets in a couple GCDs after a punt has went off. Black Orcs have absolutely nothing useful they bring to the table compared to Chosens and Blackguards, especially in such meta.

Shamans have too always been in a difficult spot when it comes 6v6, with the exception of some extremely niche cases. Perhaps some shamans will be able to explain precisely why (Outside of listing the most obvious reasons), i'm not experienced enough with one in 6v6 to do that.

I wouldn't say the meta shifted from morale dropping. FMJ has been running a morale pump setup with pretty good results (as far as I can tell). They are just playing around different Morales: WE M3, Choppa M4, Zealot M1 instead of the direct damage morales in the past. And its really hard to counter.

Shamans (and AMs) just have better tools to deal with that kind of crap (and burst in general). So if you're confident that you can deal with pressure setups than the only benefit a dok has over a shamans is the extra damage it provides. Either through being a shield dok (if you're ballsy) or through the extra proc.