How to get ROR population up.

[ChicagoJoe]

So because I came here in September, I couldn't POSSIBLY have done an actual TON of research and educate myself on the subject and know what I'm talking about? You're the gatekeeper now? I also noticed, instead of refuting what i said with your own facts, you decided to attack other things about me like my join date and my chosen Faction. Way to prove my points for me.

Yep, balance is difficult. But That doesn't mean it should exist just because "it was the other way last year, it's your turn now" kind of thinking, you know?

All the "addons" that function like nerfed buttons are called "scripts" elsewhere and banned in every single MMO that has ever existed. If people doesn't want to understand something so simple, don't even bother arguing. They'll pretend that they are experts on online gaming and all of that, but most of them are just doing that, pretending. Anyone that has played atleast 2 MMO knows that automated gameplay=ban, doesn't matter if it's "multiboxing" """"software"""", "sequence" """"""Scripts"""""" or "Fishing addons", using any of those means account termination in any MMO. But all those self-appointed "hardcore gamers" are still making a big fuss out of something that has been repeated multiple times that it would go away at some point. Let's focus on trying to bring up positive ideas and ways to improve instead of spiraling about NB, or "buff X order class because Y", which are the most common topic derails going on.

Most modern games have that stuff built in now which is part of the problem - 25+ key binds is ridiculous. Successful games keep it simpler. Some people here don’t want easy access to make game simple for newbies (especially those invested in ranked), or my teens for example. Simpler means more people.

You are correct that we have gotten off point.

Balance is hard to do for both small scale and large scale. Balance seems to be focused on small scale. Case in point balance most recently got revised after ranked season same with this time. Big differences between small scale and large scale.

The big thing is that developers didn’t listen much to guild leaders suggestions about rvr mechanics and goals many left instead of waiting. I realize that priorities especially with all volunteer groups are sensitive but population is at or near recent lows. 2-4 instance city pops from 15+ is major change.

It is what it is now, but my message is simple. Need P’s for PVP. Address why P’s are leaving.

[Lawmay]

Just read through the thread...
Whether you liked NB or not is not the question.
Whether it was right to have it in the game or not is not the question.

The question is, did removing it cause a massive drop in players? The answer is yes. Denying this is simply arguing in bad faith.

The devs said they expected it, and those who don't like NB would obviously prefer it not be in the game. Fair. But denying it was the single largest contributing factor to the population drop is just incorrect, plain and simple.

Basically, here are the choices
1. NB gone, along with half the pop.
2. NB active, much higher pop.

The devs chose option 1 and just as those of us who had an issue playing the game without NB had to leave, you who stayed hafto deal with the lower population. Simple as.

I haven't played since May myself but still lurk as I do truly love this game and like to keep up with its current development.

Nothing in this post is meant to be insulting to the dev team or people who are anti-NB. I'm simply pointing out that, while there are other factors, saying NB removal didn't significantly effect the population is just incorrect.

I get it. You don't like NB, you consider it cheating, so you feel like saying it had anything to do with the loss in population is conceding the point altogether, it isn't. You can have very good reasons to dislike NB and still admit the truth.

[Shanell]

I just hope something big in class changes are coming. Like new tactics lorewise class-based thematically.

[wargrimnir]

I just hope something big in class changes are coming. Like new tactics lorewise class-based thematically.

Not this patch cycle. Rather minor changes coming up.

[Buling]

I just hope something big in class changes are coming. Like new tactics lorewise class-based thematically.

Not this patch cycle. Rather minor changes coming up.

I hope that means stopping BHA going through walls and either removing ramapage of ensuring it's matched for destro.

[wargrimnir]

I just hope something big in class changes are coming. Like new tactics lorewise class-based thematically.

Not this patch cycle. Rather minor changes coming up.

I hope that means stopping BHA going through walls and either removing ramapage of ensuring it's matched for destro.

No, it doesn't.

[Scottx125]

You sound like a moron forgive me for rudeness. NB was banned in the end of May, population dropped in the end of May. People left. Not one or two but a healthy half. In Oceania scens begin to pop after midnight now. Who gives a horseshit if you and some stubborn dev think it is a cheat when the game is now fully playable during EU times only? No people - no RoR simple is that. You try to kill NB - you wiped half population. Well done, keep it this way and soon there will be none because people will not play it under current circumstances.

I don't like a lot of the devs decisions and lack of certain decisions. But Banning NB is not one of those decisions. Why play a game when you have an addon essentially play your class for you? Any addon IMO that does operations faster than a normal human could, or reduces the amount of mistakes a player could make, especially in a competitive environment. Is an unfair advantage.

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

True, I should correct myself and just say it was cheating. Because it essentially was.

The same way buffhead, tether, enemy and discord is an unfair advantage.

And the difference between other addons and NB is the fact that with NB the addon is essentially playing the game for you. Buffhead and other addons aren't, they give you useful information to improve how you play.

No point mentioning that NB's caused a pop drop, that's irrelevant. Only point in mentioning it is if it's going to be changed, and it isn't. My idea to bring pop back? Revert balance back to live or start a comprehensive balance change/update to make more specs viable and nerf the current meta, also probably not going to happen. IMO adding new content like LOTD and the elf city is a short term solution. Cities and ORVR need revamps to improve them as that's what most people spend their time doing. And that's what needs to be focused on. Not content that's going to be consumed and finished. But content that is constantly interacted with and replayed (city SC/PVE dungeons/ORVR campaign), and of course all these are directly affected and also effect the current balance and meta.

And why are there people thinking that reverting balance back to live is a good idea? I do not want to see WP and WH reverted. Why would people rush back if they hear this? And making all the revamps you mention or new cities would require ennormous amount of resources. Probably will take too long and population may (or should I say will) drop further. Reverting NB is quick on the other hand.

At this very moment population online is 192. This is including T1, PvE, capitals. What's left for t4 RvR? 30 vs 30? Now tell me that reverting NB ban is not an option and we need to wait another year or two for all other implementations. What will be numbers then?

Well I said it probably wasn't going to happen. But the point of going back to live balance is because it was a reference point most people could agree on for balance. And NB isn't coming back, accept it and move on. That ship has exploded, sunk to the bottom of the ocean and disintegrated. And yeah, stuff takes effort. The question isn't if it's going to take effort, the question is what is the best current approved avenue of applying that effort for the greatest return in players.

[mynban]

The same way buffhead, tether, enemy and discord is an unfair advantage.

And the difference between other addons and NB is the fact that with NB the addon is essentially playing the game for you. Buffhead and other addons aren't, they give you useful information to improve how you play.

You are right my bad, NB was doing all that for me;

• selecting which target to attack or cc

• cycling through enemies, ccing detaunting correct ones, and not breaking cc/detaunt while cycling back to attack target

• walking you best to position

• make you circle behind them

• keep an eye out for positioning youself in a way you are not putting yourself into imminent death

• use environment to block LoS

• choose when to morale drop

• choose when to burst

• choose when to tactically cc/knockdown without handing free immunity

Also, it is straight out a lie that it was a one button gameplay. NB sequences dont reach 6th thing in sequence (maybe less than 1% of time). You still had 8+ buttons to play with. The difference is without NB single-target combat is so much more cumbersome that it took a big hit. You can still do it, just cant keep playing that way for hours, it just isnt fun. So you go mindless braindead AoE way, and funny enough mindless AoE was already better performing and more desired by WBs to begin with.

I am not shy of competitive play with tough decisions and inputs. I play LoL, and with 6 buttons + 2 mouse clicks it is many times harder to play well in competitive LoL than it is RoR. Funnier part I also play Elsword (I know.. I know... you can hate me for liking that style graphics) and I am SS Star ranked player with Eve there (which is pretty much top page leaderboard equivalant of here). And its input are so crazy I broke 3 keyboards on Z key (I am not joking, watch some gameplay where hands are shown on pro level, there are vids on youtube).

My point is, RoR input mechanics are not hard; they are just bad and poorly designed. Single target vs aoe input are so diffenrent with nothing to reward you for successfully doing ST; IB vs kotbs input difference is mindblowing yet kotbs overperforms IB on majority of content no matter how successfully pull off your IB play. Ranged play vs melee play input difference (mouse directional change and constant chase staying on 5yards while dancing to get behind them while keeping them facing your front so you can block and they cant) is like playing an entirely different game. RoR is poorly designed when it comes to inputs, it is plain and simple as that. NB was bringing it back to modern standards ironing out idiocies inbuild to game engine. /2cents

[GrishnakBlagtoof]

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

What if the skilled players that know their rotation and can make fast decisions in-battle and do great simply don't WANT to be forced to use a cheap automating addon that plays for them? Just "because it's available for everyone to cheese" doesn't make it better.

People would rather, you know, actually play the game and not be forced to use NB (have a more colourful and clever name for it) just to keep up to the speed of an automated system.

You're saying you should have a right to play how you want by using NB? Goes the other way, too. We want the right to not HAVE to use it. It just so happens that your want is against the games TOS and fundamentally broke combat by making it automated and boring, and our want isn't deemed such.

Once more, if people blame the population drop because of NB being banned, you can say the same for Destruction Nerfs too...the timing there can be just as valid. Just making an example.

[mynban]

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

What if the skilled players that know their rotation and can make fast decisions in-battle and do great simply don't WANT to be forced to use a cheap automating addon that plays for them? Just "because it's available for everyone to cheese" doesn't make it better.

You are new, and never experienced, used or seen NB in action. So I can accept your ignorance on the topic. For people who say NB was a *literal 1 button that plays for you* (your exact words); whoever told you that was the case they are lying with gross exaggeration, dont fall for it. Read my above post.

You dont lose because other side had an addon *that plays for them*. You lose because you were outnumbered, you were outgeared, you were a bad player who doesnt understand how to position, or dance behind enemy, or keep enemy from dancing behind you, you were too stupid to be lured into a spot where you were easy picking. That's why people lose. If you lost to an NB player who put their CC and burst into one key rotation, it means you suck and would have lost to anyone regardless and you are nowhere near close to point competitive play starts.