Poll: SH healdebuff on level 21 (temp change until T3)

[Morf]

Push the cap to 26 and all balance issues are fixed.

Tier brackets are the way they are for a reason. Everyone needs to forget about anything past level 21 right now, each class just mastery sklls alone means 3 tactics and 3 skills to be completly fixed and debugged, that is 144 tactics and skills !!!


So to all you ppl who dont think realms should be balanced let me ask you this...If things were the other way around and sh's had a range kd and had access to a heal debuff at level 21 but sw's didnt wouldnt you agree it would make sense to mirror it so order have a spamable healdebuff ?

[PartizanRUS]

Well, actually, we can. It's a matter of changing code and database entries. The question is not whether we can. The question is whether we should. And that question's answer is not anything along the lines of "lol you're not the original developers so you can't modify the game" or "original developer's vision is perfect no changes lol." We don't require any moral right to modify the game, nor was the original vision in any way perfect. The only relevant question is whether taking a given action would improve the gameplay and balance, or whether it would not.

The fact that this is a dead game only increases the mandate. It illustrates that a 1:1 replication of original Warhammer will fail just like the original, and this decline will be exacerbated by natural issues and bugs with the emulator and its free to play nature preventing realm locking and proper banning. Doing all the work to get WAR running again and leaving it in its original condition is simply not going to happen (and I'm confident that that would remain the same regardless of whether or not I'm around), so I suggest people get used to the idea that at some point, though likely far from now, things may change.

Ofc they can, but not in this "bugs everywhere" state, when some abilities still teleport you far away.

[Telen]

It was, since patch 1.4.0.
If we want ignore this, then I assume we prefer the old unaltered sovereign sets too, the ones nobody wanted to use.

Problem is for every good thing they usually added something equally ****. Its just to find the least **** point of development or try and make a game out of only the good stuff.

[Telen]

Tier brackets are the way they are for a reason. Everyone needs to forget about anything past level 21 right now, each class just mastery sklls alone means 3 tactics and 3 skills to be completly fixed and debugged, that is 144 tactics and skills !!!


So to all you ppl who dont think realms should be balanced let me ask you this...If things were the other way around and sh's had a range kd and had access to a heal debuff at level 21 but sw's didnt wouldnt you agree it would make sense to mirror it so order have a spamable healdebuff ?

That wouldnt be as big an issue as dok can cleanse it and theres tons of them. If you change how cleanse works so all healers can cleanse all debuffs that would be fine. As I said you cant balance a game without mirrors in a vacuum. All healers also need gcleanse tactics but that another issue.

Problem is morf you play the class that wants the debuff, play a class that can cleanse the sw debuff and on a faction where your most common class can also cleanse it.

[normanis]

squig herders with their pets are already op that ability what shoot like rapid machinegun arrow are already naughty, its good like it is, maby wp/dok also need some cool 30 lvl ability down to 21 like sigmars radiance. byt in second thought for melle choppa to chase after squigherder and he cant blow up his pet to run faster its very good

[Morf]

That wouldnt be as big an issue as dok can cleanse it and theres tons of them. If you change how cleanse works so all healers can cleanse all debuffs that would be fine. As I said you cant balance a game without mirrors in a vacuum. All healers also need gcleanse tactics but that another issue.

Problem is morf you play the class that wants the debuff, play a class that can cleanse the sw debuff and on a faction where your most common class can also cleanse it.

Allowing healers to cleanse all types ailment,curse and hex means there would be no need in most situations to even consider anything but the healer with the best heal potential, dok and wp and that cant be good.

Whether i do play a sh or shaman doesnt mean anything, i also play a choppa yet disagreed with the idea of giving them the ws/str tactic, i also play order, i dont have a bias opinion. My feeling is purely and only in balance to both realms, i dont want to see 1 realm, 1 class whatever it is have it easier or a hard time. If things were the other way around and sh's have heal debuff at 21 i would be saying the same thing about sw's, i want balance for all, even fights etc etc.

[Renork]

Lol, group cleanse was annoying. It made magi/eng/any dot heavy class useless and pigeon holed them into being rift/magnet bots.

[Telen]

Allowing healers to cleanse all types ailment,curse and hex means there would be no need in most situations to even consider anything but the healer with the best heal potential, dok and wp and that cant be good.

There already isnt except when rp/zea have healbless/gabsorb proc (admittedly less so if rr80+ gear isnt added). That dok wp have a gcleanse just reinforces that. As only the best healer on des and not order can cleanse the sh/sw debuffs makes this a clear balance issue that favors des that you would bring into the game earlier. If wp could cleanse sh then bringing it in line with sw wouldnt be an issue. Also that the weakest healers am/shaman cant cleanse the one class you really want to cleanse bw/sorc really makes your cleanse argument invalid as cleanse as it is just reinforces the current options of two wp/dok for gcleanse coverage or take a rp/zea as they can spam cleanse sorc/bw backloads with tactic. Cleanse was one of my bugbears for 5 years of playing.

[Azarael]

As I mentioned before, group cleanse itself is definitely up for serious consideration. I was discussing the cleanse spam tactic vs the group cleanse with some of the testers, and group cleanse is clearly out of whack as unlike cleanse spam, there is no increased cost, the opportunity cost is non-existent (whereas spam cleanse requires use of GCD every time you cast it) and it has a greater maximum cleanse rate with an average cleanse almost equal to cleanse spam.

[Telen]

As I mentioned before, group cleanse itself is definitely up for serious consideration. I was discussing the cleanse spam tactic vs the group cleanse with some of the testers, and group cleanse is clearly out of whack as unlike cleanse spam, there is no increased cost, the opportunity cost is non-existent (whereas spam cleanse requires use of GCD every time you cast it) and it has a greater maximum cleanse rate with an average cleanse almost equal to cleanse spam.

Well cleanse spam is a direct counter to the main backloaded dd class. End game ap costs become negligible with ap regen/pots/gear. gcd costs also dont matter if you counter burst by getting a WoP/BB cleansed off theres nothing you can do better with those gcd that taking that out of a burst as you just made 5 sorc/bw gcds meaningless. Cleanse is another topic entirely though that I could point out issue with for pages and pages.