Do AoE Caps need a Rework? 24/All

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

In my opinione - YES - it was a big mistake.

the original inention of the aoe increase to 24 was to allow to coutner the zerg....flawed logic which can be debunked with a simple example.

A wb vs B and C wb

9 cap example
A wb aoe can hit 9 ppl B and C aoe can hit the same 9 ppl if you position well. This mean your positionin can allow you to soak dmg if you are inside the aoe range even with all wb; since 8 tank and 1 (def)melee will fill the aoe cap.

24 cap example
A wb aoe can hit 24 ppl B and C aoe can hit the same 24. This mean your positionin won't allow you to soak dmg because if you are inside the aoe range 8 tank and 1 (def)melee wont fill the aoe cap

Thus this was a mistake, a change pushed by bad wb leaders and someone who didnt play extensivly in live.

In live there was no aoe cap and was the reduced to 9..... Now , or everyone was drunk when this was done or someone here made a mistake big time.
This change also made worst the funnel sich....and not only the open fight sich which they would require 2 diff balance... In live block door was a viable strategy...

its simple with aoe 24+ make zerg even bigger. because they dont have balls leave wc without 2-3 ather wb. isnt it makes lagfeast bigger if i hit 24 targets than 9? system need read info from 24 targets same time than previous from 9? (my guessing about lag)

again if your tank dont die under heals because the dmg they take is abysssmall there can even be 120 ppl hitting 8 tanks...... if you have the kite tools to kite and kill the bigger side because you are organised then it will work ; instead with a 24 aoe cap 2xwb can hit all of yours ppl, meanwhile you hit half of em... now do the math with 1wb vs 4...... 24x 5 vs 24 x1 = potentialy 120 vs 24 hit every second.

is it better 8 ppl hit vs 8 ppl hit or 120 vs 24 ppl hit every second.?

of course frontal positioning nullifier such rampage dont help balance the game..... but thats ppl refusing to touch the correct things...if rampage whas a partial bypass instead a nullifier it would be different.

[ashton007]

Aoe cap was increased back in Fall 2019.
That should have never happened.
It just caused zergs to be more punishing and threw all kind of unbalance into the already bug infested ability system.
Aoe cap of max 9 targets was appropriate and needs to be brought back on the table.
One might argue with a lower aoe cap balanced warbands might not collapse, that is true, but the removal of aoe anti-heal mechanics and moral bomb nerf are to blame for it.
Sadly I know there are some stubborn figures behind the curtains, that don’t even play the game, putting up quite a resistance to this argument.

HUGE agree on this, the devs should have never messed with the aoe cap as the game was desgined around a cap of 9! the change has made classes like aoe slayer too good, to the point where they can even outshine ST dps, the overpowered AoE makes it really hard to shine with ST specs especially in pug settings. its just plain silly they have allowed the 24 cap to last this long, i mean honestly they have strayed so far from true live, this server is the farthest thing from A canon age of reckoning. dont even get me started on the scheduled cities every 3 days.. what a joke city should be daily!

[Cyrylius]

Bigger aoe cap works against the larger and less coordinated group, and that usually means the zerg. Can we agree on not changing that for no good reason? Aoe cap at 9 would make it borderline impossible to wipe an equal sized warband (not wholly impossible, but close) while changing very little in terms of blob countermeasures.

[Fenris78]

The current 24 AoE cap :

1. Is making AoE meta the only viable meta in RvR and city,

2. Is making already strong abilities (like Rampage) performing "over the top" by allowing one player to hit 24 other people. As some tactics, skills and morales, all were designed around the 9 AoE cap, and werent meant to be this strong,

3. Is making numbers matters more than ever, i.e. you stack more AoE than opponent = you win by default,

4. Is making Movement, kiting and global strategy pretty much irrelevant ; just stack AoE and move forward into enemy blob, removing more and more need to use our brain,

5. Is making ST classes and spec totally irrelevant, forcing players to play whatever specific AoE combo because it's the only way to get into WBs, instead of letting people play what they want,

6. Is making zerg even more impactful, see 3. You cannot go outside alone now, even in small group, because any bigger group with more AoE will likely destroy you. Previous AoE cap allowed people to go out with 12 or 18 men groups (the most common format in most guilds), and still be able to pack a punch and win with smart decisions and better level of play.

7. Is making individual play matters less, especially for non-AoE meta classes. Hard to make a real difference when you hit one guy amongst people hitting 24 at once.

8. Is making ST / group heals weaker, and making AoE heal even more impactful, creating further imbalances between healer classes and specs.

9. Is making people judge you by your AoE/group abilities only, and not by your level of play / ST efficiency.

10. Is making attacks and defenses even harder, and AoE even more impactful (i.e. AoE hitting over a small doorframe is even more deadly than before).

11. Is making imbalances for Forts/City contribution, vastly favouring AoE damage since you have now 2.5x more hits than before, hence 2.5x more damage numbers from AoE classes.


Every of these points are negatively affecting the game IMO, and the global experience is further away from the first years I remembered (wich were super cool).

Yes, you had other "meta" with morale drops and such, the fight was more skewed in favour of who will get M2 first (hence why some morale pumps/drains were nerfed), BUT we also remember morales STILL hit 9 people at once.
Hence it was balanced before.

You could try returning to 9 AoE cap, then balance healing accordingly to avoid making AoE/Group heal too powerful.

Just try returning to 9 AoE cap, and see what happens. I'm sure Destro will scream less about rampage, Order will scream less about gtdc (well, probably not :p), ST specs will be more viable/less negatively impacted by AoE meta, etc.

[ashton007]

Aoe cap was increased back in Fall 2019.
That should have never happened.
It just caused zergs to be more punishing and threw all kind of unbalance into the already bug infested ability system.
Aoe cap of max 9 targets was appropriate and needs to be brought back on the table.
One might argue with a lower aoe cap balanced warbands might not collapse, that is true, but the removal of aoe anti-heal mechanics and moral bomb nerf are to blame for it.
Sadly I know there are some stubborn figures behind the curtains, that don’t even play the game, putting up quite a resistance to this argument.

"Sadly I know there are some stubborn figures behind the curtains, that don’t even play the game, putting up quite a resistance to this argument."
thats all it is, big dogs scared to admit they **** up. the delisuion that their change was good despite all the backlash they recieve just goes to show that they care more about pride and self interest than the good of the community (it has been explicitly said that they dont care about the population, and they are ok with developing a dead game) and the PLAYERS THAT ACTUALLY PLAY

[Omegus]

If you ever wanted proof that people just post knee-jerk reactions to thread titles without actually reading the OP then this thread is all the evidence you need.

[normanis]

Bigger aoe cap works against the larger and less coordinated group, and that usually means the zerg. Can we agree on not changing that for no good reason? Aoe cap at 9 would make it borderline impossible to wipe an equal sized warband (not wholly impossible, but close) while changing very little in terms of blob countermeasures.

that why ppl need learn assist not just spam aoe and feel as top players. atleast before 2019 was assist my position from wb leader.

[Cyrylius]

Bigger aoe cap works against the larger and less coordinated group, and that usually means the zerg. Can we agree on not changing that for no good reason? Aoe cap at 9 would make it borderline impossible to wipe an equal sized warband (not wholly impossible, but close) while changing very little in terms of blob countermeasures.

that why ppl need learn assist not just spam aoe and feel as top players. atleast before 2019 was assist my position from wb leader.

Well, as much as I agree with this sentiment I do acknowledge that other players want to kill something too. Also, if healers can sustain full 3 or 4 party aoe pressure then narrowing it down to 9 targets isn't gonna get you many kills either.

[Cyrylius]

If you ever wanted proof that people just post knee-jerk reactions to thread titles without actually reading the OP then this thread is all the evidence you need.

Stop pretending, you enjoy the forum madness as it is and you're just trying to look like you're actually reading all of this for genuine game discussion

[Tesq]

Bigger aoe cap works against the larger and less coordinated group, and that usually means the zerg. Can we agree on not changing that for no good reason? Aoe cap at 9 would make it borderline impossible to wipe an equal sized warband (not wholly impossible, but close) while changing very little in terms of blob countermeasures.

that why ppl need learn assist not just spam aoe and feel as top players. atleast before 2019 was assist my position from wb leader.

Well, as much as I agree with this sentiment I do acknowledge that other players want to kill something too. Also, if healers can sustain full 3 or 4 party aoe pressure then narrowing it down to 9 targets isn't gonna get you many kills either.

as if wb were running around dont kill each other before...