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Gap Closer Balance

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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 413

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#81 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 am

tomato wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:39 pm -snip-
Thank you for providing that reasoning. That's much better and reasonable than 'god im glad you're not involved with the team', and I retract my brainlet statement with regards to you. I appreciate you being passionate.

If I had to balance the game by nerfing classes - gunpoint and told to by someone on the team, because I don't like removing players' enjoyment - I'd definitely say that Marauders are underperforming had I looked at the avg Marauder player. You wouldn't be looked at as an example, but an extreme - you're way above the average.

Games should not be balanced around one game mode when they have several.
Game developers should not listen to the sole feedback of one person - even if they're at the top of the food chain. That's why threads like this one get created; so a hodgepodge of opinions can be displayed.

It is my opinion that every time the team focuses on balance, they end up wasting development time - time that could be better spent to work on other areas of the game.

I'm excited to see how Max & Dalen's ability revamp ends up when it goes live, because it'll be a reset to 1.4.8 mechanics. Hopefully there's no widespread changes like RoR did over the years after that. It's what got us here with 'balancing' to begin with - narcissists on the development team wanting to change Warhammer Online because they thought they could do it better than the game that shut down, despite the game shutting down due to no fault of the developers.

The metagame in RoR (and any game, really) will always form appropriately no matter the content.

In games like GunZ: The Duel, K-Style with two shotguns was predominant as the preferred way to play the game. There are different ways to play GunZ (using a dagger, using other ranged weapon types, etc) but the best clans will always use the formed meta weapons and the rest is left up to individual skill.

That metagame formed because those weapons were simply the best for all scenarios. The same will happen when the ability revamp hits.

I want to address the 'devs can't balance ****' jab, yet again - if a designers' qualification requires them to play the top in the game they're playing at, no AAA company would have any designers. The developer making the change doesn't need the numbers, just a description of how it would impact existing mechanics. Knowing the numbers gets them the job, learning how to develop games that are fun lets you keep the job.

If you remove a form of 'fun' in the game, a form of 'fun' (or benefit, because removing fun in this way sucks) must be added in turn for those who had their class changed.

And if you remove the fun of something, an equal amount or better of fun must be added in another place. I don't think it's an unreasonable idea to do so, and that's my opinion.

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lumpi33
Posts: 443

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#82 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:54 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 am If I had to balance the game by nerfing classes - gunpoint and told to by someone on the team, because I don't like removing players' enjoyment - I'd definitely say that Marauders are underperforming had I looked at the avg Marauder player. You wouldn't be looked at as an example, but an extreme - you're way above the average.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VixRaFfuZg

Mara is not underperforming. Get better gear and learn to use its tools. If you are an average player you will only get average performance out of almost every class.

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Cyrylius
Posts: 404

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#83 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:33 am

tomato wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:30 pmNeurontin
Damn what a plot twist. Checked your post history and didn't expect you to be him.
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

fontin
Posts: 43

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#84 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:45 am

mara can do well in a super hardcore grp setting and suck at everything else? wow great news thanks so much!

lemao
Posts: 365

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#85 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:48 am

fontin wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:45 am mara can do well in a super hardcore grp setting and suck at everything else? wow great news thanks so much!
No one said that ? Mara is especially decent in gimped group specs (like missing a bg for armor debuffs or the other dps is missing an incoming hd),
because Mara is the only class which provides all of it at once. You could argue that Mara is worse for solo play or just solo pugging scs(compared to a WL),
because the WL has more mobility and upfront burst + a nice kd in guardian spec which is really nice for going in, bursting someone and going out again.

Mara definetely doesn´t "suck at everything else" . You could argue like this with most classes, they shine in certain gamemodes and are not as good in others (which is completely fine imo).
A WE/WH for example are excellent in small scale (scenarios, ranked, city warbands in st groups and solo roaming), but lack a place in RVR warbands because they don´t provide decent aoe damage. You could argue the same about choppa/slayer, which are excellent at everything but solo play (compared to other classes).

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Cyrylius
Posts: 404

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#86 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:25 pm

Marauder specifically does worse than other destro mdps in super tryhard setting, as its not a part of the meta destro 6v6 composition. That being said, it works amazing in 24v24 both in ST groups and AoE, it's utility is fantastic for orvr blobfest and it can even join kite groups as a melee dps to provide the pull and AoE kd. It's also often easier to play than choppa or WE, as its much more durable in AoE and HD specs.
And similar lists could be written about choppa and WE. Except the very best 6v6 compositions destro has 3 melee classes with several playstyles viable, all of them viable in at least part of the content at highest level. And, to tie that to thread name, marauder having a pull somehow isn't an issue in most of that content.
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

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Ninjagon
Posts: 538

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#87 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:01 pm

Million dollar question: Ability rewamp - WHEN?? :-)
Ninjamag - The Sorcerer. RETRIBUTION / DEVASTATION guild.
Order: Velmires WP, Carnow Knight, Ninjagon BW, Ninjab WL
Destro: Ninjamar mara, Khaininja DoK, Ninjaguard chosen, Ninjamag sorc
Spoiler:
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Han
Posts: 37

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#88 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:18 pm

Ninjagon wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:01 pm Million dollar question: Ability rewamp - WHEN?? :-)
in 2 weeks

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Duukar
Posts: 302

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#89 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:38 pm

Rowanmantle wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:55 am Mara pulls needs a big nerf! Currently its bugged to hell and there is no second range check so it can pull from further away and if you have bad latency some pulls can look like half way across the map.
Then Shattered Limbs needs to be removed from Slayers and put on to a less popular class. Definitely an OP ability on one of the most popular classes Vs. Melee squig on destro.

Duukar
Posts: 302

Re: Gap Closer Balance

Post#90 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:44 pm

Mara pull is super easy to defend with movement if you aren't completely incompetent. I constantly have people LoS my pull and it breaks. Ive only pulled people through walls like once or twice. Yes if you run away on a successful pull the player flies a bit further, but it wont be right to your feet if you ran away. it will be like 20 feet behind you.

I think the problem is how slow you fly through the air. Make the pull faster so you arent in the air for like 3-4 seconds getting pounded on.

Must be hard to have an OP ability on a popular spec on a popular class. Must be hard having 5 Slayers per WB with Shatter limbs while there is MAYBE 3 Msquigs in the game..

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