Add Diminishing Rations to oRvR

[reyaloran]

Currently the game incentivizes zerging in all orvr situations as the aao is even across the zone and any renown is better then none. Since that core reward loop of the game is set in stone, it becomes the dominate strategy to blob up and abuse bigger numbers win strategies. We see this in EU time with multiple wbs running parallel and overflow wbs being spawned however it is mitigated by the larger numbers that are played during that time zone making it easier to back cap bos and trying to split up the zerg by hitting multiple locations. Contrast that with NA, where Order will have 2-3 wbs running around but Destro often only has 1 if we are lucky. In such a situation we cant split them up as they will simply rotate though the bos with a 60 man blob and wipe out any solos or small parties that exist. If we tried to fight the blob then we are in an even worse position where they outnumber us 3-1 in every fight so we don't even have the chance to get some renown from killing 1 or 2 of them. This is causing many Destro guilds to stop bothering to log in and is killing the game in a positive feedback loop. After giving it some thought for ways to fix the NA issue without breaking EU I think that the best solution is to implement the LotD Diminishing Rations debuff. This would mean that even though we have next to no chance of winning the fight we may be able to get a few kills and in turn have a reason to show up to the zone in the first place, while for EU the comparable numbers would offset the debuff like we see in the larger LotD fights.

[Detangler]

+1. Land of the Dead is possible and a lot of fun only because of this mechanic.

[Phantasm]

Totally agree.
Current AAO and antiAAO system only reduce exp/rr/inf/loot(crests?) which means nothing for organised Warbands seeking kills and domination in RvR zones.

I imagine LotD one reducing dmg/heal output would be better solution (as patch note states - 48ppl in same spot equals -12%).

Lets just wait for devs finish their ability system and hope LotD tested solutions (chain control of BOs, NPC groups taking control of them and said dmg/heal output) will be slowly brought to standard RvR zones.

[Akalukz]

Could just do a weekend test anything to encourage the nonpopulated side to fight. AAO sounds good on paper, but 400% AAO for 0 kills is still 0 renown/crests.

[Aethilmar]

Or, and hear me out on this, no.

Every anti-blob combat change has just made blobbing worse.

More survivable healers ... more AOE to kill them in blobs
Expanded AOE cap ... more blobbing to overcome it.
LotD diminishing ... more blobbing to overcome it.

You know what actually stops blobbing?
1) Not rewarding behavior such as kill farming.
2) Having diversified objectives that rewards people to break into smaller groups to achieve X (for some X).
3) Not making AOE so powerful that getting anywhere near it results in splat so the winner is whoever brings the most AOE into the tightest space the fastest (in other words bring back single-target emphasis).

Ofc all of that requires work and the devs to completely rethink their design philosophy for the version of the game they want to present.

[Detangler]

Or, and hear me out on this, no.

Every anti-blob combat change has just made blobbing worse.

More survivable healers ... more AOE to kill them in blobs
Expanded AOE cap ... more blobbing to overcome it.
LotD diminishing ... more blobbing to overcome it.

You know what actually stops blobbing?
1) Not rewarding behavior such as kill farming.
2) Having diversified objectives that rewards people to break into smaller groups to achieve X (for some X).
3) Not making AOE so powerful that getting anywhere near it results in splat so the winner is whoever brings the most AOE into the tightest space the fastest (in other words bring back single-target emphasis).

Ofc all of that requires work and the devs to completely rethink their design philosophy for the version of the game they want to present.

Actually LotD mechanics discourage blobbing. You try to superblob one area and smaller teams will outflank and outcap you. You can't put all your resources in one area and expect to win. Much the opposite, actually.

[Aethilmar]

Or, and hear me out on this, no.

Every anti-blob combat change has just made blobbing worse.

More survivable healers ... more AOE to kill them in blobs
Expanded AOE cap ... more blobbing to overcome it.
LotD diminishing ... more blobbing to overcome it.

You know what actually stops blobbing?
1) Not rewarding behavior such as kill farming.
2) Having diversified objectives that rewards people to break into smaller groups to achieve X (for some X).
3) Not making AOE so powerful that getting anywhere near it results in splat so the winner is whoever brings the most AOE into the tightest space the fastest (in other words bring back single-target emphasis).

Ofc all of that requires work and the devs to completely rethink their design philosophy for the version of the game they want to present.

Actually LotD mechanics discourage blobbing. You try to superblob one area and smaller teams will outflank and outcap you. You can't put all your resources in one area and expect to win. Much the opposite, actually.

Huh. Guess I just missed all the times that two warbands were able to wipe four warbands due to this wonderful mechanic offsetting the blob bonus.

Or the times Order got pushed back to warcamp but we were able to break out because the remaining warbands were able to leverage this mechanic to knock Destro back.

I'll try to pay closer attention in the future ...

[Garamore]

Just make it easier to 5 star keeps - then people will be foreced to spread a bit.

[Phantasm]

Spoiler:

Or, and hear me out on this, no.

Every anti-blob combat change has just made blobbing worse.

More survivable healers ... more AOE to kill them in blobs
Expanded AOE cap ... more blobbing to overcome it.
LotD diminishing ... more blobbing to overcome it.

You know what actually stops blobbing?
1) Not rewarding behavior such as kill farming.
2) Having diversified objectives that rewards people to break into smaller groups to achieve X (for some X).
3) Not making AOE so powerful that getting anywhere near it results in splat so the winner is whoever brings the most AOE into the tightest space the fastest (in other words bring back single-target emphasis).

Ofc all of that requires work and the devs to completely rethink their design philosophy for the version of the game they want to present.

Actually LotD mechanics discourage blobbing. You try to superblob one area and smaller teams will outflank and outcap you. You can't put all your resources in one area and expect to win. Much the opposite, actually.

Huh. Guess I just missed all the times that two warbands were able to wipe four warbands due to this wonderful mechanic offsetting the blob bonus.

Or the times Order got pushed back to warcamp but we were able to break out because the remaining warbands were able to leverage this mechanic to knock Destro back.

I'll try to pay closer attention in the future ...

Mechanic is there, but people affraid to die. Remove deaths from killboard, add more stats like this site does including heals and protection and you will see more brave attacks. Look what freebootaz does. They dont care about dying yet they have tons of fun and kills. Even organised guilds approach them with care.

[Detangler]

Or, and hear me out on this, no.

Every anti-blob combat change has just made blobbing worse.

More survivable healers ... more AOE to kill them in blobs
Expanded AOE cap ... more blobbing to overcome it.
LotD diminishing ... more blobbing to overcome it.

You know what actually stops blobbing?
1) Not rewarding behavior such as kill farming.
2) Having diversified objectives that rewards people to break into smaller groups to achieve X (for some X).
3) Not making AOE so powerful that getting anywhere near it results in splat so the winner is whoever brings the most AOE into the tightest space the fastest (in other words bring back single-target emphasis).

Ofc all of that requires work and the devs to completely rethink their design philosophy for the version of the game they want to present.

Actually LotD mechanics discourage blobbing. You try to superblob one area and smaller teams will outflank and outcap you. You can't put all your resources in one area and expect to win. Much the opposite, actually.

Huh. Guess I just missed all the times that two warbands were able to wipe four warbands due to this wonderful mechanic offsetting the blob bonus.

Or the times Order got pushed back to warcamp but we were able to break out because the remaining warbands were able to leverage this mechanic to knock Destro back.

I'll try to pay closer attention in the future ...

Sarcasm, so helpful in a rational discussion. Since you like lists, here's a list for your original post. Maybe that will help you understand?

1) Strange that you bring up kill farming, yet then all you talk about is how to kill more of the enemy. Again, the rations help to even the odds much better than standard oRvR where you have zero help. Almost like it helps the outnumbered side in a fight.
2) LotD absolutely has this with all the objectives, supply lines, and roving NPCs de-capping objectives - even more so for the dominating side.
3) Again, rations limit damage and healing if you are super blobbing. Could it be adjusted to have greater penalties to slow down fights? Sure.

Lotd mechanics absolutely help in superblobbing situations. There is literally zero chance that you would run up against 4 organized warbands blobbing together. 1-2 max, while the rest have maybe 6 healers between them. Those extra warbands will melt at the first sign of resistance while the other half run as soon as people die. Your organized 2 warband can and will tear thru them, especially if you 100% commit to the fight and push into the enemy.

Curious - do you actually join organized WBs with discord, or are you strictly a PUG warband player? That may skew your viewpoint by quite a bit here...