Add Diminishing Rations to oRvR

[Aethilmar]

Actually LotD mechanics discourage blobbing. You try to superblob one area and smaller teams will outflank and outcap you. You can't put all your resources in one area and expect to win. Much the opposite, actually.

Huh. Guess I just missed all the times that two warbands were able to wipe four warbands due to this wonderful mechanic offsetting the blob bonus.

Or the times Order got pushed back to warcamp but we were able to break out because the remaining warbands were able to leverage this mechanic to knock Destro back.

I'll try to pay closer attention in the future ...

Sarcasm, so helpful in a rational discussion. Since you like lists, here's a list for your original post. Maybe that will help you understand?

1) Strange that you bring up kill farming, yet then all you talk about is how to kill more of the enemy. Again, the rations help to even the odds much better than standard oRvR where you have zero help. Almost like it helps the outnumbered side in a fight.
2) LotD absolutely has this with all the objectives, supply lines, and roving NPCs de-capping objectives - even more so for the dominating side.
3) Again, rations limit damage and healing if you are super blobbing. Could it be adjusted to have greater penalties to slow down fights? Sure.

Lotd mechanics absolutely help in superblobbing situations. There is literally zero chance that you would run up against 4 organized warbands blobbing together. 1-2 max, while the rest have maybe 6 healers between them. Those extra warbands will melt at the first sign of resistance while the other half run as soon as people die. Your organized 2 warband can and will tear thru them, especially if you 100% commit to the fight and push into the enemy.

Curious - do you actually join organized WBs with discord, or are you strictly a PUG warband player? That may skew your viewpoint by quite a bit here...

Haha. That's funny. I was speaking in sarcasm b/c I know its your native tongue

But, to answer your question directly, I play a lot of tanks and one of the great things about that is I get invited to a lot of different warbands. So I've done LoTD many times both rando PUGs and in voice-comms with the whole nine-yards of rotating challenges, coordinated morale drops, etc, etc, etc.

I won't deny that diminished rations helps get a few more kills but quantity still wins out in the end (at least assuming that both sides have an equal number of "quality" warbands to field and often even if that is not the case).

However, what is the core problem that the OP's proposed solution is trying to address? The fundamental complaint was side X is getting slaughtered at time Y because the enemy has too many people in one spot to overcome.

But why do they have too many people in one spot? That is because the game is literally designed to force people into direct conflicts at limited objectives. It is a feature, not a defect, and no amount of combat mechanic fudgery is going to change that if the core design concept is "put people in a box and let them fight it out".

Hence my counter-proposals. De-emphasis "fight in a box" combat and the associated emphasis on kill-count over strategic objectives. Tone down mass AOE. Create reasons to spread out or, at the very least, have to move around more which creates spread in formations and creates opportunities to ambush the enemy (at least on maps like Praag).

And I'll give a concrete example. At one point in the game, capped flags had a lock on them for several minutes So you could delay a zone cap by launching ambushes on BOs and holding them for some time. The enemy then had to respond hard while holding the other objectives and, if they responded with a zerg the other objectives were vulnerable.

Did that system have problems? Yes. Were you able to indefinitely delay zone caps that way? Also yes. But did it allow for situations where a smaller force could still do something useful and important against overwhelming odds? Also yes.

And that is the kind of gameplay options that would solve the OPs problem instead of just making people abuse number mechanics to get a couple of kills before they wipe anyway.

[Detangler]

Huh. Guess I just missed all the times that two warbands were able to wipe four warbands due to this wonderful mechanic offsetting the blob bonus.

Or the times Order got pushed back to warcamp but we were able to break out because the remaining warbands were able to leverage this mechanic to knock Destro back.

I'll try to pay closer attention in the future ...

Sarcasm, so helpful in a rational discussion. Since you like lists, here's a list for your original post. Maybe that will help you understand?

1) Strange that you bring up kill farming, yet then all you talk about is how to kill more of the enemy. Again, the rations help to even the odds much better than standard oRvR where you have zero help. Almost like it helps the outnumbered side in a fight.
2) LotD absolutely has this with all the objectives, supply lines, and roving NPCs de-capping objectives - even more so for the dominating side.
3) Again, rations limit damage and healing if you are super blobbing. Could it be adjusted to have greater penalties to slow down fights? Sure.

Lotd mechanics absolutely help in superblobbing situations. There is literally zero chance that you would run up against 4 organized warbands blobbing together. 1-2 max, while the rest have maybe 6 healers between them. Those extra warbands will melt at the first sign of resistance while the other half run as soon as people die. Your organized 2 warband can and will tear thru them, especially if you 100% commit to the fight and push into the enemy.

Curious - do you actually join organized WBs with discord, or are you strictly a PUG warband player? That may skew your viewpoint by quite a bit here...

Haha. That's funny. I was speaking in sarcasm b/c I know its your native tongue

But, to answer your question directly, I play a lot of tanks and one of the great things about that is I get invited to a lot of different warbands. So I've done LoTD many times both rando PUGs and in voice-comms with the whole nine-yards of rotating challenges, coordinated morale drops, etc, etc, etc.

I won't deny that diminished rations helps get a few more kills but quantity still wins out in the end (at least assuming that both sides have an equal number of "quality" warbands to field and often even if that is not the case).

However, what is the core problem that the OP's proposed solution is trying to address? The fundamental complaint was side X is getting slaughtered at time Y because the enemy has too many people in one spot to overcome.

But why do they have too many people in one spot? That is because the game is literally designed to force people into direct conflicts at limited objectives. It is a feature, not a defect, and no amount of combat mechanic fudgery is going to change that if the core design concept is "put people in a box and let them fight it out".

Hence my counter-proposals. De-emphasis "fight in a box" combat and the associated emphasis on kill-count over strategic objectives. Tone down mass AOE. Create reasons to spread out or, at the very least, have to move around more which creates spread in formations and creates opportunities to ambush the enemy (at least on maps like Praag).

And I'll give a concrete example. At one point in the game, capped flags had a lock on them for several minutes So you could delay a zone cap by launching ambushes on BOs and holding them for some time. The enemy then had to respond hard while holding the other objectives and, if they responded with a zerg the other objectives were vulnerable.

Did that system have problems? Yes. Were you able to indefinitely delay zone caps that way? Also yes. But did it allow for situations where a smaller force could still do something useful and important against overwhelming odds? Also yes.

And that is the kind of gameplay options that would solve the OPs problem instead of just making people abuse number mechanics to get a couple of kills before they wipe anyway.

I get that. All of it. Current oRvR is just bigger blob wins. Objectives need more emphasis than box generation for ranking keeps. They are largely forgotten during keep sieges except for allowing a trickle of defenders to fly into the keep. LotD mechanics have their flaws, yes, but they are at least on the right track.

I think if you re-read your original post, you'd see that you kinda came off as pretty dismissive of LotD mechanics, when in actuality I think you actually do see the value in it but want it to be taken further than the current setup. That about where you stand on this, or am I misreading?

[Kpi]

The only anti blob mechanic is remove any RR gain, War Crest and Bags if the enemy have +40AAO. The blob will spread really fast.

And open the 3rd zone is really necesary

[tvbrowntown]

The only anti blob mechanic is remove any RR gain, War Crest and Bags if the enemy have +40AAO. The blob will spread really fast.

The blob will def spread out. Spread out so far that they'll log off and play a different game — the fast track to kill RoR.

it's not the player's fault that the other realm has a lower population than them - they just log in after work to play. Punishing them for something out of their hands is a bad idea.

[Fey]

The anti-blob mechanic used to be a coordinated morale drop. We can't have that, because it's brain-dead one button gameplay. So instead stacking morale damage is cut in half. Then the best solution for Orvr is melee blob.

The consistent antagonism towards morale abilities is a theme on this server. The stacking morale nerf is just a recent example. Unique morales like, Mountain Spirit, Eye of Sheerian, 1001 Blessings, and Sprout Carapace, have had their durations neutered. SW and SH had their %100 M2 removed. It's been so long I cont remember what it's called. So now everyone just runs focused mind and it dumbs everything down.

We used to delete with 2 shaman morale pump 4 squigs and, Lots O Shooting. I suppose that was too easy. Better every group just has at least 1 Choppa spamming gtdc.

[Absinth]

I think that the best way to make people stop blobbing is not to punish them for blobbing but reward them for not blobbing, and you can think about it in many ways but lowering the damage and heal will not cause them to stop blobbing, they will just take 3mins longer to kill enemy wb.

First make getting 5 stars easier, either by allowing the resources to spawn on BO no matter how many BO's taken you have or by lowering the needed amount of resources (or boost the gain of points per box), noone will stay at warcamp trading kills for kills in a blob if they have at the back of their mind that enemy side is free to boxrun to their hearts content and take the zone without giving them a way to defend.

Second, give some sort of incentive for people to stay away from blobs, either by applying some bonus like a small RR bonus (5% for example) when 100ft around you are less than 32 people. or increase RR/warcrests gotten from kills in smaller scale (no clue if possible). Or some other reward but i have no clue what you can give people except rr/war crests. Another way might be giving people war crests when they return boxes.

Third, reward people for splitting into two zones when you have more than 100 people in one zone. offload some people into second zone, keep both alive instead of one zone being alive in one spot. Right now second zone is either lowbie boxrunning place or some wb goes there to deploy fake ram in hopes of getting the main zone captured.

Ofcourse you can reverse what i said and punish people but i think people would be more interested in doing less blobb if they knew they are getting rewarded.

[Nameless]

Give BO bigger importants. Ppl didnt liked the lockout timers on BOs from early live version but imo they were good. You get some sense os satisfaction when locking the bo for 15 mins while being zerged by 3 wbs.
Make lockout timer scaling with aao, so more aao less time the bo being protected.
Also nerf oil and make bo importance bigger when keep siege occure. So you dont need billions ppl on the keep but need ppl to cover more the zone

[Phantasm]

Blobing is simple math problem, you stack more aoe dps and protection for them vs lower amount of enemies, spam aoe and win. Thats the root of all problems - everyone hits equaly everyone else. Lotd diminishing rations debuff try to address that problem in some way by reducing damage and heal output. Just wait for a moment said debuff will make come back to RvR and see what happens. Atm numbers according to patch notes are: 48 people in same spot suffer 12% less heal and damage output.

[RORquest]

Reworks morales
no free m4 morales
morales m4 only in talent tree
lower range on some
lower burst morales


rock paper scissors morale play
rock morale = shields - morale drains - ap drains
paper = heals - revives - speed buff - purge buff
scissors = damage - Healing debuff - cc

most of these morales are already in game BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CORE ANTI-ZERG MECHANIC TO RVR GAMEPLAY. Instead you butchered it..... you simply just had to you know... NOT BLOB spread out.

[Fey]

RoRquest gets it.

There is a mechanic in the game already that counters the zerg. It's called morale damage. However I don't see it coming back. Reverting the morale nerfs would be an admission that it was a mistake. Melee cluster bomb will be meta until the ability rework, probably after as well.

I of course disagree with the morale changes, but it's their server they can do what they want. The current meta is the result, not really all that surprising.