Scenario surrender change

[Ashoris]

asking for a difficult, subpar technical solution - for something that the community could fix with minimal effort, is just wrong

Thats the main difference - Some people think most of the issues can be fixed by the community itself while other people think a "magical" technical solution will solve the Problem.

You can **** onto randoms for not forming a propper team all you want but they won't change if the game doesn't make it very easy and rewarding. I think dungeonfinders in other games are a good example of this. People who would never form a group would do dungeons as a team.

Sorry i think we have a different view on what to expect from people and what to expect from technology . My example gave the SC a totally balanced class distribution - the only thing that was necessary to do by hand is the "sorting". but even that is not done by "us".

It is easy to sort as a human but the amount of rules you would need to implement as a technical solution is huge, not to mention defining the right priority to each of this rules.
so if even the easiest tasks are not done by "us" its hard to complain that the technology is not perfect.

[Valfaros]

You can expect all you want. The game is 10 years+ old many people still don't do it. Clearly your expectations are wrong. I'm 100% convinced if the scs wouldn't force you into sc groups and sc chat most would not bother to join one. I mean sorting players based on their class and used mastery tree into groups should be rather simple. You need like what 3-5 rules for that?

However tbh it won't matter even if the community after so many years magically would manage this or the devs would program this there would be little to no effect on the matches.

Tanks still will not guard the proper teammates let alone stay in range. The guard mechanic which is so important has the absolute worst ui.Healers will get themselves blasted without detaunting while dps will all focus different targets and mainly the enemies tanks as the assiting and targeting in this game is just badly done by default too. Every compentent player under the sun uses several addons to fix the problems the ui of mythic has. It's one of the drawbacks when a dev chooses to allow them. It makes them lazy in their ui choices and ignore fixing things that are terrible.

What I think matters however is that the changes I have seen on ror all go in the wrong direction. Barriers, guard kills give no rp, certain new sc designs, premade get queue pop preference before single queue? (not sure if that wasn't changed), reduced rewards if you getting smashed and surrender. They don't help pugs but rather discurage them to play at all.

[Avernus]

Tanks still will not guard the proper teammates let alone stay in range. The guard mechanic which is so important has the absolute worst ui.Healers will get themselves blasted without detaunting while dps will all focus different targets and mainly the enemies tanks as the assiting and targeting in this game is just badly done by default too.

What about dps healers then? I mean, if they are allowed to exist and prosper (just look at the amount of dps AM/dps shamans), why tanks can't slot FO and yell that they are dps too and don't guard anyone?

And here we are, watching at this "do your job" advice at loading screen. Ha!

I wish there was an option for a votekick at sc...

[Phantasm]

I dont think sorting groups in scenarios could be so difficult. Addon Autoband written years ago can perfectly sort groups out. But it wouldnt work well if scenarios start without complete groups what we got right now. It would take another min or 2 to fill up groups before sc start. But again, it would be beneficial on its own to start scenario when everyone is there in spawn point.
Lets say 2mins for gather people in groups. 30s before sc start scenario manager sort out groups prioritizing 2/2/2 or 1/3/2 or at least 1/4/1 if all above not possible, and then final 30s prestart countdown starts.

[bw10]

throw another bone to healers (in heal spec, or if at least gate the extra reward behind total damage < total heal + prot) and tanks. id go as far as +5 crests per sc (won or lost)

[Valfaros]

Tanks still will not guard the proper teammates let alone stay in range. The guard mechanic which is so important has the absolute worst ui.Healers will get themselves blasted without detaunting while dps will all focus different targets and mainly the enemies tanks as the assiting and targeting in this game is just badly done by default too.

What about dps healers then? I mean, if they are allowed to exist and prosper (just look at the amount of dps AM/dps shamans), why tanks can't slot FO and yell that they are dps too and don't guard anyone?

And here we are, watching at this "do your job" advice at loading screen. Ha!

I wish there was an option for a votekick at sc...

Prosper? In scs? There might be alot around but that doesn't make them actually good or useful.

The main difference is that divine fury and stats you need as dps healer actually makes you bad at healing while FO doesn't hinder you from guarding. So no matter what you do, you never get hindered in guarding. You need parry sure but esp with endgame armor where you start to reach caps of other offensive stats there isn't anything else that would give you more value. So, why would you ignore a major skill you have that runs passivly on the target that you should follow anyways to assist while doing dmg?

The skill is just so good that no matter what you do you should always use it. If dps heals could still effectivly heal after going dps they certainly would. But it doesn't work that way. Dps zealo might be the best example that on occations uses some regular healing at times but harbinger sadly throws you out off dps for ages so it punishes you alot for mediocre healing. Ignoring guard to do dps is if dps healers would all ignore rez/detaunt/dispel when going dps. Any good one actually still uses those tools as they work just as good when doing dps. A good dps healer also manages the def target for the dmg heal they do have, to support the team. It's just that those skills are quite lackluster compared to how perfect guard still works as offtank.

I mean just going dps doesn't mean you ignore any other tools you still have. Dps also don't ignore armor debuffs do they? Like any tools you have that still work you should use no matter the spec.

Edit: Also if they are allowed to exsist...they were desinged for a reason. Just because balancing is poor doesn't mean we can just kick people from the game who activly enjoy it. If there was a tank class/spec that was desinged around having no guard but being a sturdy dps than they should absolutly be an option.

[Shalanor]

i'll give the solution for your pain: play as premade. Next thread...

AH! Good Idea. Why noone said that before?
Cause IT IS the Issue. Not the Solution. Some People wanna fight. Not farm.

Get grps a Queue that they can kill each other. But they don't want this cause they wanna farm randoms to push their ego.....
Pareto? Know it? 20% of Players play premade and 80% are not. But the 20% are louder. So most devs follow they're stupid solutions and ruin good games.
Example: MWO. CW was Pug vs Premade all the time. Pugs left. I said it to the premade and they ignore it. So they have to wait sometimes over an Hour for 1 game . And still they think they are right...... Want more rewards that more players come. But they don't want rewards. They want fun. And getting killed by a premade is no fun as pug so..... What happens? RIGHT! Randoms get in single and have fun.

Is this so difficult? Everyone can have fun! Pug vs Pug, Grp vs Grp or Grpplayers go without grp in the singlelane. Perfect system but.... Not perfect for farming pug.... And i think this is the bad thing for our "highlyskilledpremadeplayers". Then they See how skilled they really are and some of them wake up from a nightmare

[fontin]

a simple /5 might be able to farm some random pugs, but cant compete with a double slayer premade.

[geezereur]

i'll give the solution for your pain: play as premade. Next thread...

AH! Good Idea. Why noone said that before?
Cause IT IS the Issue. Not the Solution. Some People wanna fight. Not farm.

Get grps a Queue that they can kill each other. But they don't want this cause they wanna farm randoms to push their ego.....
Pareto? Know it? 20% of Players play premade and 80% are not. But the 20% are louder. So most devs follow they're stupid solutions and ruin good games.
Example: MWO. CW was Pug vs Premade all the time. Pugs left. I said it to the premade and they ignore it. So they have to wait sometimes over an Hour for 1 game . And still they think they are right...... Want more rewards that more players come. But they don't want rewards. They want fun. And getting killed by a premade is no fun as pug so..... What happens? RIGHT! Randoms get in single and have fun.

Is this so difficult? Everyone can have fun! Pug vs Pug, Grp vs Grp or Grpplayers go without grp in the singlelane. Perfect system but.... Not perfect for farming pug.... And i think this is the bad thing for our "highlyskilledpremadeplayers". Then they See how skilled they really are and some of them wake up from a nightmare

I agree with you but it will fall on deafs ear here. Pugs vs Premade has cause many players to just leave the game but premaders dont care.

[PROsiak]

Well, there are a lot of people in the playerbase who just wanna join the game for an hour or two from time to time, play a few scenarios or participate in rvr and it shouldnt be ignored that there are some fundamental problems with the game that should be adressed. It is fact, that for good portion of the day scenarios are unplayable for the pugs, cause u can have 1 premade party who just stomps all of em and if finally good enough players group up to overcome them or they get bored from playing against no resistance, the situation basically flips and now the opposing side is getting farmed. RVR is no different, either you're on the highly outnumbered side and there's siege after siege that you can do nothing about (and it has been said aao is a poor implementation to help reduce that problem) or you are at the side that is sieging and you get bored from not finding any engagements, just staring at the keeps doors.

Also, im always happy to see how quickly you can often join scenarios, but i would gladly pay an extra few minutes of que time to have the experience improved.