Wards and Patch

[Dabbart]

For me it is quite funny, that alot of these pvp tryhards are complaining now, that their easy way for ward unlock is gone (for now).
Who would have thought, that PvE is quite important and can be fun & useful .... .

....

Woah, woah woah woah woah!

Fun?!?!??!?!

Who has said in here that it was Fun? It was easier/faster(due to the quest rewards for running X times[plus reset being 18hrs now] instead of just boss drops[weekly] like Live/early RoR) than spending currency. No one is complaining 'cause they can't get their weekly "fun". The gear carousel is taking a few more laps, so ideas for how to give them MORE free/cheap/ez stuff starts to pop up. Fun never comes into it.

That, is imo the entire problem. Return boot/glove drops of all set types to drops for kills and make them BoE, keep the personal loot roll but drastically limit the gains from it. Return Keep/Fort/Zone bag rolls and return actual Gear into the bags. Incentivise people to play and succeed. Oh, and get rid of Loser rolls.

[bw10]

yeah get rid of loser rolls so after few days of one sided stomping the losers will either realm switch or quit. great idea. its a **** game. entertainment. fun. relax. and people keep suggesting stick instead of a carrot. lmao

[Dabbart]

yeah get rid of loser rolls so after few days of one sided stomping the losers will either realm switch or quit. great idea. its a **** game. entertainment. fun. relax. and people keep suggesting stick instead of a carrot. lmao

So, this argument is no longer valid?

Or how about this one?

And ofc, you do what you want and take enjoyment from annoying others

Yes, because with ALL the carrots this server has provided led to a massive increase in gameplay, player retention, and overall "fun" right? My opinion is just that, mine. If you don't share it cool, offer yours. But "it's a game lul!" is just a sad argument. There are many different types of games, MANY of them are difficult, complicated, and require being a "tryhard" to be successful. Others, require that you hop on one leg and sing a rhyme. So what?

Players didn't leave in droves before all the free loot was being handed out. The AFK farming hasn't led to massive increase in the playerbase or retention. As far as I can see, city/LoTD participation is at it's lowest levels. The killboard shows the same names with 10/1+ KDA ratios. My personal experience is that gameplay knowledge/ability decreases year over year. Fewer healers Detaunt, fewer tanks guard swap, fewer DPS assist, more players kite in a straight line directly away from their team, etc etc etc. My experience is clearly not universal. But I have yet to see any evidence or arguements that it is wrong.

[Wdova]

It's amazing you can get 4 chars to 80+ and have no idea how to farm mayhem/ruin for your lower level chars all by yourself.

Yes! Non of them touched pve for gearing progression. They all have all rvr sets possible and still after sov/wl I still had about 3,5k crests on them. Gearing was so easier back in the days 1+ year ago.
So no,I dont know the basics of farming pve for gear progression. Never had too.

Yet it's the same PQ system that governs the rvr lakes. And after hundreds of hours of playing you have no idea how it works. Lol.

Woah I am mind blown how clever You are. Yes after hundreds of hours spent in scs/rvr how could one know how pve farm works.LoL. You are trully keyboard warrior indeed.

[shoelessHN]

Yes! Non of them touched pve for gearing progression. They all have all rvr sets possible and still after sov/wl I still had about 3,5k crests on them. Gearing was so easier back in the days 1+ year ago.
So no,I dont know the basics of farming pve for gear progression. Never had too.

Yet it's the same PQ system that governs the rvr lakes. And after hundreds of hours of playing you have no idea how it works. Lol.

Woah I am mind blown how clever You are. Yes after hundreds of hours spent in scs/rvr how could one know how pve farm works.LoL. You are trully keyboard warrior indeed.

Keep playing. Maybe in a couple thousand more hours you'll figure it out. Then you can quit bitching on the forums about a game you clearly don't know.

[Helwer]

yeah get rid of loser rolls so after few days of one sided stomping the losers will either realm switch or quit. great idea. its a **** game. entertainment. fun. relax. and people keep suggesting stick instead of a carrot. lmao

So, this argument is no longer valid?

Or how about this one?

And ofc, you do what you want and take enjoyment from annoying others

Yes, because with ALL the carrots this server has provided led to a massive increase in gameplay, player retention, and overall "fun" right? My opinion is just that, mine. If you don't share it cool, offer yours. But "it's a game lul!" is just a sad argument. There are many different types of games, MANY of them are difficult, complicated, and require being a "tryhard" to be successful. Others, require that you hop on one leg and sing a rhyme. So what?

Players didn't leave in droves before all the free loot was being handed out. The AFK farming hasn't led to massive increase in the playerbase or retention. As far as I can see, city/LoTD participation is at it's lowest levels. The killboard shows the same names with 10/1+ KDA ratios. My personal experience is that gameplay knowledge/ability decreases year over year. Fewer healers Detaunt, fewer tanks guard swap, fewer DPS assist, more players kite in a straight line directly away from their team, etc etc etc. My experience is clearly not universal. But I have yet to see any evidence or arguements that it is wrong.

when carrots don't work it is your idea to punish player harder so they don't even start to play or what is your exact plan? keep players from good gear even longer?
the free loot you are talking of is 5 or more lotd-losses on order to get at least 1 good item for 80 gold scarabs? Or the free loot of 9'999 crests for your bis triumphant ring? Free loot of 100 gold bags for invader-gear? Or spending hours to find groups for annoying pve-grind that got worse or even impossible atm. Yes you are on the right way for sure to increase playerbase, especially with "skilled" once like you. lol

[nebelwerfer]

Since we are brainstorming here id like to toss my 2c into the well and make a wish

Chap 22 raid loot bags should contain pvecoins, citydungeon quality weapons and onslaught gear should be purchasable for these aswell.

Furthermore onslaught should give ward same as bloodlord. Up the difficulty if need be, and make gunbad immense mobdense dungeoncrawling experience again but raidable by 12-18 man from lvl18+bolster

[Dabbart]

when carrots don't work it is your idea to punish player harder so they don't even start to play or what is your exact plan? keep players from good gear even longer?
the free loot you are talking of is 5 or more lotd-losses on order to get at least 1 good item for 80 gold scarabs? Or the free loot of 9'999 crests for your bis triumphant ring? Free loot of 100 gold bags for invader-gear? Or spending hours to find groups for annoying pve-grind that got worse or even impossible atm. Yes you are on the right way for sure to increase playerbase, especially with "skilled" once like you. lol

Feel free to read what I write and not alledge things I never said.

Free loot as in Personal loot bags, free PvE gear via X kills, and loser rolls. I also think the merged curency was a bad idea. I didn't at the time, but I do now. No one cares about getting a Gold bag, why not? Cause you get 1 every 10 or so zone locks regardless of personal or realm performance. PvE is boring but no one cares because you only have to run it X times, once every 18 hrs and you're done. So why care about making it actually challenging or "fun"? THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. No one cares about how fun the game is, they just want loot. Faster and easier.

I want people to try and get better. You want BiS gear? You have to do more than AFK/.surrender. I don't support the 10k Ring. I believe that it should be from ranked currency ONLY, and that everyone should play ranked outside of PUG and group que. You should be required to succeed at least a little, it would incentivise better gameplay imo. Oh, and the difference between having it and not is negligable.

At the end of the day, your gear is **** irrelevant most of the time. So many players don't detaunt, assist, guard swap, pay attention to LoS, kite towards their team, tons of people love focusing tanks, etc etc etc. Their gear is irrelevant to the outcome of the fight. Players don't care or need to ever improve. Why not? Cause they get RR80 BiS regardless. Just .surrender and move on.

The fact you can only see the game through carrots and punishments is your problem. Not being given something for free isn't a punishment. I want more loot from kills(gloves/boots of ALL PvP sets BoE), I want REAL loot in zone lock/keep/fort/city bags. I don't want to punish people, I want to reward performance. "But then they get more loot and I don't cause I keep losing!" And? This server has been around for a LONG time. There are RR100 players. There are probably thousands of BiS toons on both sides. This isn't a fresh wipe, "keeping up" isn't a thing. Learn2play you will have MUCH more fun, and be MUCH more successful.


I don't care if you think I am "skilled". I don't. I have a lot of experience, that's it. I've never claimed to be a "top player". I just want good fights, it feels like a massive portion of the current playerbase just wants more loot. How many complaints about "sweaty fights" have you seen? It's kinda sad.

But please, offer your opinion. You state the carrots haven't worked, so c'mon. What's your idea? MORE/EZ free loot? That's working so well for the server currently...

I've asked this question before, and shockingly no answer. So let's try again: Would it be preferable to have A, as many people regularly playing the Server as possible, or B, a robust, balanced, and healthy PvP experience for those that do login? Not trying to argue the politics of either, but IMO B is the better option, and it feels like the "team" prefers A. I don't believe you can have both in a PvP game. You have to focus on one. Imo.

Edit: P.S. Yes. I am well aware that I am an asshole. Don't believe that makes me wrong though.

[francomes]

when carrots don't work it is your idea to punish player harder so they don't even start to play or what is your exact plan? keep players from good gear even longer?
the free loot you are talking of is 5 or more lotd-losses on order to get at least 1 good item for 80 gold scarabs? Or the free loot of 9'999 crests for your bis triumphant ring? Free loot of 100 gold bags for invader-gear? Or spending hours to find groups for annoying pve-grind that got worse or even impossible atm. Yes you are on the right way for sure to increase playerbase, especially with "skilled" once like you. lol

Feel free to read what I write and not alledge things I never said.

Free loot as in Personal loot bags, free PvE gear via X kills, and loser rolls. I also think the merged curency was a bad idea. I didn't at the time, but I do now. No one cares about getting a Gold bag, why not? Cause you get 1 every 10 or so zone locks regardless of personal or realm performance. PvE is boring but no one cares because you only have to run it X times, once every 18 hrs and you're done. So why care about making it actually challenging or "fun"? THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. No one cares about how fun the game is, they just want loot. Faster and easier.

I want people to try and get better. You want BiS gear? You have to do more than AFK/.surrender. I don't support the 10k Ring. I believe that it should be from ranked currency ONLY, and that everyone should play ranked outside of PUG and group que. You should be required to succeed at least a little, it would incentivise better gameplay imo. Oh, and the difference between having it and not is negligable.

At the end of the day, your gear is **** irrelevant most of the time. So many players don't detaunt, assist, guard swap, pay attention to LoS, kite towards their team, tons of people love focusing tanks, etc etc etc. Their gear is irrelevant to the outcome of the fight. Players don't care or need to ever improve. Why not? Cause they get RR80 BiS regardless. Just .surrender and move on.

The fact you can only see the game through carrots and punishments is your problem. Not being given something for free isn't a punishment. I want more loot from kills(gloves/boots of ALL PvP sets BoE), I want REAL loot in zone lock/keep/fort/city bags. I don't want to punish people, I want to reward performance. "But then they get more loot and I don't cause I keep losing!" And? This server has been around for a LONG time. There are RR100 players. There are probably thousands of BiS toons on both sides. This isn't a fresh wipe, "keeping up" isn't a thing. Learn2play you will have MUCH more fun, and be MUCH more successful.


I don't care if you think I am "skilled". I don't. I have a lot of experience, that's it. I've never claimed to be a "top player". I just want good fights, it feels like a massive portion of the current playerbase just wants more loot. How many complaints about "sweaty fights" have you seen? It's kinda sad.

But please, offer your opinion. You state the carrots haven't worked, so c'mon. What's your idea? MORE/EZ free loot? That's working so well for the server currently...

I've asked this question before, and shockingly no answer. So let's try again: Would it be preferable to have A, as many people regularly playing the Server as possible, or B, a robust, balanced, and healthy PvP experience for those that do login? Not trying to argue the politics of either, but IMO B is the better option, and it feels like the "team" prefers A. I don't believe you can have both in a PvP game. You have to focus on one. Imo.

Edit: P.S. Yes. I am well aware that I am an asshole. Don't believe that makes me wrong though.

You simply picked the wrong game.
This game aint competitve. It will never ever ever ever be.
The reasons are many...ping issue, fps drops,gear gap,realm and class imbalance...but above all its simply not designed for that

Now you may disagree with what i say here, but you just proved my point yourself by saying that ppl dont assist deatunt etc. you really think its because they are bad/dumb? maybe its because they like to have casual fun playing a casual game without having to think too much about it. Thats why the 'get good' argument its not wrong but it just dosent work.

Bout the A and B question, Im of course team A...but i do got to say: are you really team B? because while in paper it may sound very nice i got the feeling that the result of that would be turning the game into NA Situation or in other words= and empty desert with no sc and only pvedoor on lakes, imagine, if this is happening now how bad it can get if you give more rewards to the winning side. Folk alredy go and always log into the winning side now, a lot have their order and destro toons on different accounts just to swap without restriction.

And the reason is, again, that this aint a competitive game. In a real good competitive game you can get both a lot of ppl and a very good solid balanced pvp, which allows you to matmatch ppl agains foes with the same power lvl, both in gear and in ability.

Imo it can be a very dangerous mistake to implement competitive mechanics in a casual game. Nothing good will come out of that. Why would you take actions to benefit a 5% of the population who wanna be tryhards while making the game harder and less enjoyable for all the others?

[Dabbart]

You simply picked the wrong game.
This game aint competitve. It will never ever ever ever be.
The reasons are many...ping issue, fps drops,gear gap,realm and class imbalance...but above all its simply not designed for that

Now you may disagree with what i say here, but you just proved my point yourself by saying that ppl dont assist deatunt etc. you really think its because they are bad/dumb? maybe its because they like to have casual fun playing a casual game without having to think too much about it. Thats why the 'get good' argument its not wrong but it just dosent work.

Bout the A and B question, Im of course team A...but i do got to say: are you really team B? because while in paper it may sound very nice i got the feeling that the result of that would be turning the game into NA Situation or in other words= and empty desert with no sc and only pvedoor on lakes, imagine, if this is happening now how bad it can get if you give more rewards to the winning side. Folk alredy go and always log into the winning side now, a lot have their order and destro toons on different accounts just to swap without restriction.

And the reason is, again, that this aint a competitive game. In a real good competitive game you can get both a lot of ppl and a very good solid balanced pvp, which allows you to matmatch ppl agains foes with the same power lvl, both in gear and in ability.

Imo it can be a very dangerous mistake to implement competitive mechanics in a casual game. Nothing good will come out of that. Why would you take actions to benefit a 5% of the population who wanna be tryhards while making the game harder and less enjoyable for all the others?

Fair points. I disagree with your definition of "competitive vs casual" game but I think that's just a personal perception. We have all the tools necessary to be competitive, we just lack the players. We have ranked que with MMR, that fits every measure of your "Real competitive game" assesment. Also, the server could have far more of them, instead it went the solo Q path.

I played on this server back when T2-T3-40/50 was cap. We all had a blast and in my memory the average player "skill" and knowledge was MUCH higher than now. Yes. I firmly believe that if you focus on creating Balanced, Fun PvP as opposed to making as many people happy as possible, the server would be in a better place. Fewer players? Maybe. Edit: For the record, would changing it now be beneficial? I have no **** idea. Moving slowly down the path with advertisment saying as much could, and would imo. But no, I am not advocating removing every single loot bonus right this second. Add the proper loot paths via successfully playing, then slowly remove the free loot drips.

Thanks for the response. But, for the record, you either are on a ban evasion account, or are a very new player. Post history makes me think you are on the level and newer player. So, yes there have been periods long before loot was handed out at this rate where we had thousands of concurrent players. The reasons for leaving are vast and drama filled. Most of them have nothing to do with Loot.

P.S. I did not pick the wrong game. I've been playing Warhammer since 2008 with various breaks due to server closures and disagreement with server trajectory/leadership. It's the same game, just with different ideologies.

Edit2: This all completly ignores the increase of AoE cap which imo, broke a decent amount of game balance. But, again, game balance can and will be secondary when the avg player just doesn't use their tool kit(detaunt/assist/guard/etc)