Patch Notes 06/02/2024

[zumos2]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter.

I really wonder what your goal for such a post is ... The most hilarious part is that it isn't even true.

Not that it is any of your business who proposes what within the balance team. As long as everyone in the team agrees with a change at the end, we all share the responsibility.

[PROsiak]

IB is in a great spot

You don't have many people to prove this statement true, as IB is probably one of the most unpopular classes on the order side, and few people who actually care about this class actively raise many concerns about current state of the ironbreaker, so it might be a bit of an overstatement calling it a great spot.

[nocturnalguest]

It wasnt Zumos shot. Whole balance group makes proposals collectively which is further approved by developer assigned to be in charge of balance.
Not sure who is feeding you this fake info but i would considered vetting your sources a bit more before committing to such definitive statements when they arent true. Singling out one person to put a blame on is rather petty and doesnt contribute much to the debate either.
As for this silly debate that is going here, IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks. If thats still not enough dmg for your taste, you are free to roll a full time dps class if expecting a full time dps results.
As always, its ongoing process and nowhere near done.

Decision making process for proposals =/= making a proposal. I dont have to be vetting anything as it was convo in discord where he said "Heavy Blow might need a nerf yes" on a day when tank channels were normalised. So it was his "shot" for sure and calling it not true is just hypocrisy. You use word "blame", while nobody has been putting blame on anyone. Questioning decision and its reasoning is prohibited by CoC too now?
As for the debate i havent notice anyone here have been saying that IB is in a bad spot and HB being useless after 20% dmg nerf. I said it was pointless to change HB and still stand on this statement. I said that BoG feels like lackluster (not considering its current bugged state) and explained myself properly (havent seen any counterarguments btw), maybe more tests will show otherwise (i admit that what i and others here do is rant on day 1 without actual data to support claims, its pretty common to do on forums, so i believe its no surpise for anyone) but definitely not for zerg orvr where most people play and very debatable for small scale where i cant atm figure its proper usage without big downsides, so its hard to say as we can consider it a nerf or buff yet.

I have very high hopes that its ongoing process, but we were previously have been kept with pointless/bad changes for ages without reverts, coming back, evaluating and looking into data. I do really hope it will be very different this time.

I really wonder what your goal for such a post is ... The most hilarious part is that it isn't even true.

Not that it is any of your business who proposes what within the balance team. As long as everyone in the team agrees with a change at the end, we all share the responsibility.

Ok, look, i apologize. Mentioning you specifically is very low from me and shouldnt be happening. Im sorry. Ill be addressing further questions to a balance team, not person.

In regards to the rest, mine or not - im worried about what you guys will do with the game. Plans are kept secret. Is it ok to communicate with community this way? I believe no

[hogun]

[/quote]

IB is in a great spot, with amazing group buff and HB remains extremely high value dot and class as a whole in 2h build have highest tank burst potential of all tanks.
[/quote]

with no disrespect to you, you must be mistaken about the tank, all the logs I've collected show the opposite.

[Everdin]

Lads, its pretty pointless to argue against HB nerf, we will have to live with it. Also no amounts of reasoning will reach zumos (sorry for mentioning you personally, but its a well known fact it was your shot for this) because he has very different perspective on a matter. Ill start from afar, but whole story in my pov is the following:
Tank channel change is normalization of dmg channels we've just had is very important and led to HB nerf. It had some sense to normalize imo (while a lot of people will not agree on this), i'd mention that while they were on it they didnt pay too much attention into mastery trees allocations for all those skill and this could be the matter of further finetuning (i do hope) if someone gathers enough reliable data and some proper proposals i guess, because i believe not considering it is oversight.
Word normalization is pretty important here as logic behind the nerf was as simple as - HB is outliner for each and every tank skill in game. We need to have things normalized. This perfectionism is the only driver for that change as i see it.
It was mentioned here by many that the change is pointless pretty much... world didnt crumble with it, but ranting here is more like expression of uncertanty that direction for balance in this regard is correct.
Where was never an option to properly check IBs dps/burst would love to see how those 20-30% of dmg loss from HB affects the general scheme. Shouldnt be very much, but what sadens me is that even if it would be kept the same it wouldnt anyhow disrupt overall balance, either for tanks or game as a whole.

I think his point is that in a party setting you chose the new ability instead of GBF. GBF is good for solo, but granting to the whole party +25% AA damage (eventually combined with the AA tactic increase od order dps) should offset the damage loss by skipping GBF. This obviously have to be proved

Well yes, it has to be proven. Because its a loss of pretty important source for AP pump along being a 13 pointer and restrict you spec wise. But overally to say if its a buff or nerf we have to consider "party dmg with ap pump" vs "party dmg with +25% aa increase" vs. "consider party dmg with IB running GBF" with other things unchanged. I feel that the winner is ap pump.

It's pretty pointless to argue about all these changes, this game is far from beeing balanced and with the current state of the "balance" team there will be no hope for the future, just look at setups of certain players and you will see what will be next "balance". Normaly I would argue that "They just don't know it better" or they have no experience with some classes, but the truth is, they are very well aware what they are doing and how, and the experience most of them have comes from the enemy side.

[Jajcek12]

Grumble an mutter taken-I
Paraphrasing Conan

(ballance gods) , I have never prayed to you before.
I have no tongue for it.
No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad,
Why we fought or why we died.
No, all that Matters is that two stood against many.
That's what's important.
Valor pleases you, (bllance gods), so grant me one request -
Grant me revenge!
And if you do not listen, then the Hell with you!"

(sorry for offtop i had to)

[zumos2]

Making an observation that you don't seem to have a deep understanding of the class is not a personal attack. Its an observation.

Right ...

You said an IB can buff their own auto attack damage, yes? Shield spec wont have much damage to begin with, so count them out. That means you're talking 2H spec. What 70 RR career mastery spec would you think would work with this ability? Grudge-Born Fury is out of the question, unless you want to give up THREE of the FOUR key abilities/tactics that make 2H spec decent- knockdown, 10% damage/5% parry tactic, aoe snare, 10% crit/str buff for self/oath friend. Parry buff is completely out of the question here if you are talking a pure IB damage build.

Making choices, yes, but why on earth would you sacrifice 10% damage and 5% parry, knockdown, and aoe snare for a weak aoe damage skill that costs a significant amount of grudge (something IB has no real way to build quickly unlike the BG) and only gives a small boost to auto attack damage? Heavy Blow was decent damage after full grudges, but now your best damage ability is Grudge-Born Fury. How are you going to have both this new ability and GBF in the same build? Sacrifice a set bonus for +2 masteries from sov gear to dilute possible IB stats to grab a couple of these abilities? I'm sincerely asking here, because it seems myself and the rest of the community see what you all did and have not come up with any reasonable explanation as to why this is an overall benefit to the class.

Maybe I missed the cacophany of cries about Ironbreaker damage being too strong on these forums. Anyone else able to find these threads somewhere?

You still seem to want to have it all: Both highest personal damage and great group utility. Yes if you want to take Blood of Grimnir, you won't be able to take GBF. Something that could even change in the future. But 11-0-13 spec is still a great option for 2H build using Blood of Grimnir. And 5-5-13 is a great option for SnB build with Blood of Grimnir. Both would be very potent builds for small scale groups.

As for warband, if I'm an order dps, there is no tank I'd rather have as my guard than an IB.

Overall I believe IB is in a strong spot at the moment. But obviously we keep an eye on how they perform over time.

[Rotgut]

SnB IB seems fine. If fights remain as fast as they were last night, Grudge might become an issue. By the time you have enough Grudge, after casting your Parry and Crit buff, to use Blood of Grimnir and to make Earthshatter do any dmg at all, the fight is kinda over.

Is the Dual Wield parry buff fixed yet? And can y'all share your thoughts on Slayers being an upfront dmg class now, and Choppa's dmg buff impact?

[Gravord]

just look at setups of certain players and you will see what will be next "balance". Normaly I would argue that "They just don't know it better" or they have no experience with some classes, but the truth is, they are very well aware what they are doing and how, and the experience most of them have comes from the enemy side.

Why do people propagate such easy to destroy narratives? If i wanted an easy mode for my classes, why would i push for best utility tool (chop fasta) be removed? Bonus dmg is nice but it will never match to full time party and self cd reductor on such good uptime as it was.
Im not going to play shield or 2h def bg myself, having that ability moved there gives me personally nothing, What it gives is better balance and reason for def/shield bgs to be taken to warband, because with that utility and the rest of the tools they already got, they can fight for the spots now with both other tanks. Least played tank in game, with his least played weapon, got reason to be picked, madness!
Could go on but its pointless anyway. No amount of evidence and examples will ever be enough.

[hogun]

[/quote]
And 5-5-13 is a great option for SnB build with Blood of Grimnir.
[/quote]

plzzzz,

no shield mastery for S&b ? no earthshatter ...no run shield ...

so you think its better to have 1 skill blood of grimnir and loose 3 ib strong skill ? plzzz