Dev restart the balance to the beginning

[WarhammerKotbs]

As a snb tank i got into a 1v1 with a solo parry riposte choppa they had 70% parry & i had 45% parry 40%block (kotbs has bad def % imho out of all the tanks) they had 1k str for strike through i had 700str they have no toughness i have 800, i melted myself on them i was getting hit for 472 dmg per riposte after mitigation & there was nothing i could do but run away after 6secs of me doing autos & abilitys i had taken 2k dmg form riposte alone that i couldnt block or parry, imho they need to let def rolls work on procs & dots as this dot & proc meta is bypassing everything that makes me stacking def %s worth it, at this rate all tanks will be stacking 1k+ toughness 10khp & max regen builds just to counter dots & prcs that we cant block or parry its just the rampage issue re-branded with a new coat of paint so TLDR dots & procs bypassing def % rolls is the real issue imho with this rework

[Lisutaris]

As a snb tank i got into a 1v1 with a solo parry riposte choppa they had 70% parry & i had 45% parry 40%block (kotbs has bad def % imho out of all the tanks) they had 1k str for strike through i had 700str they have no toughness i have 800, i melted myself on them i was getting hit for 472 dmg per riposte after mitigation & there was nothing i could do but run away after 6secs of me doing autos & abilitys i had taken 2k dmg form riposte alone that i couldnt block or parry, imho they need to let def rolls work on procs & dots as this dot & proc meta is bypassing everything that makes me stacking def %s worth it, at this rate all tanks will be stacking 1k+ toughness 10khp & max regen builds just to counter dots & prcs that we cant block or parry its just the rampage issue re-branded with a new coat of paint so TLDR dots & procs bypassing def % rolls is the real issue imho with this rework

That's what I am saying, Riposte as a skill is fine. But how it's working now is bad design, game and balance wise.
It can not be evaded/parried/whatever , it is a 100% hit as the description says. Mitigation will work to some degree but as Choppa or Slayer got alot of bypass (other hits will hit too ofc) and pen, it will still hurt like crazy.
As a tank you are lucky with your 1-2 hits per second. Imagine that "feedback" on incoming dmg on a dual wield class with auto attack speed boost. (like +50% AA haste)
I can tell you what happens, you attack such a player for 1-2s and are close to being dead while thinking....yeah...cool...ok... it's a riposte guy. You can already see/feel the RIP over your head because even if you try to react to it, it's already too late. It has no viable counter because of the 0,25s icd. Ignoring a dps all the time and keeping detaunt on him is funny to some degree but should not be the solution

And because I hear it all the time -> NO. JuSt AtTaCk FrOm BeHiNd is no solution or fix either. Sometimes you attack from behind and still get parried because of latency difference or server lags. And even if that's not the case ... try to get behind a riposte guy who knows what he is doing. Good luck. That's what he is paying attention to 99%. Only way to really "nuke" such a spec is a stun (which can be parried !!! LOL same as parry debuff ...) and making him explode while being not guarded (as a melee dps). If you dont have a stun on your class RIP. (and like mentioned above, melee class debuffs or stuns are usually a melee attack > which can also be parried and got a long cooldown even if it won't happen at all because of being parried for example. > you tried to counterplay > 1gcd wasted > counter wasted and on cooldown now > and ofc some inc undfendable riposte dmg as a cherry on top).

DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUS:

Spoiler:

Funny idea for that tactic ... give/let keep some classes, lets say choppa and slayer (for example) that tactic. Riposte.
BUT maybe also decrease all other outgoing dmg by 50%, decreasing dodge,disrupt to 0% while increasing armor rating by 20% and magical dmg taken by 20% too -> maybe even buff riposte with some fancy additional bonus. -> This way its still nice for solo or small and makes you completely useless vs ranged or mage classes. More or less the harrdcore/extreme mirror of the tank tactic which deacreases armor but boosts dmg.
It's fine to have rock paper scissor mentality/style and that you can instakill lets say every other melee class. But you need to be a real freekill for ranged and magic in this case.
(honestly -> just nerf it a lil bit and tune down the procc rate .... really... that's the best and easy solution here.... If you start to balance stuff like mentioned above it will be hell and most likely a dumpster fire )

[WarhammerKotbs]

As a snb tank i got into a 1v1 with a solo parry riposte choppa they had 70% parry & i had 45% parry 40%block (kotbs has bad def % imho out of all the tanks) they had 1k str for strike through i had 700str they have no toughness i have 800, i melted myself on them i was getting hit for 472 dmg per riposte after mitigation & there was nothing i could do but run away after 6secs of me doing autos & abilitys i had taken 2k dmg form riposte alone that i couldnt block or parry, imho they need to let def rolls work on procs & dots as this dot & proc meta is bypassing everything that makes me stacking def %s worth it, at this rate all tanks will be stacking 1k+ toughness 10khp & max regen builds just to counter dots & prcs that we cant block or parry its just the rampage issue re-branded with a new coat of paint so TLDR dots & procs bypassing def % rolls is the real issue imho with this rework

That's what I am saying, Riposte as a skill is fine. But how it's working now is bad design, game and balance wise.
It can not be evaded/parried/whatever , it is a 100% hit as the description says. Mitigation will work to some degree but as Choppa or Slayer got alot of bypass (other hits will hit too ofc) and pen, it will still hurt like crazy.
As a tank you are lucky with your 1-2 hits per second. Imagine that "feedback" on incoming dmg on a dual wield class with auto attack speed boost. (like +50% AA haste)
I can tell you what happens, you attack such a player for 1-2s and are close to being dead while thinking....yeah...cool...ok... it's a riposte guy. You can already see/feel the RIP over your head because even if you try to react to it, it's already too late. It has no viable counter because of the 0,25s icd. Ignoring a dps all the time and keeping detaunt on him is funny to some degree but should not be the solution

And because I hear it all the time -> NO. JuSt AtTaCk FrOm BeHiNd is no solution or fix either. Sometimes you attack from behind and still get parried because of latency difference or server lags. And even if that's not the case ... try to get behind a riposte guy who knows what he is doing. Good luck. That's what he is paying attention to 99%. Only way to really "nuke" such a spec is a stun (which can be parried !!! LOL same as parry debuff ...) and making him explode while being not guarded (as a melee dps). If you dont have a stun on your class RIP. (and like mentioned above, melee class debuffs or stuns are usually a melee attack > which can also be parried and got a long cooldown even if it won't happen at all because of being parried for example. > you tried to counterplay > 1gcd wasted > counter wasted and on cooldown now > and ofc some inc undfendable riposte dmg as a cherry on top).

If I had some power in balancing decisions and that tactic has to stay.... I would give some classes, lets say choppa and slayer for example that tactic. Riposte.
BUT maybe also decrease all other outgoing dmg by 50%, decreasing dodge,disrupt to 0% while increasing armor rating by 20% and maybe even buff riposte with some fancy additional bonus. -> This way its still nice for solo or small and makes you completely useless vs ranged or mage classes. More or less the mirror of the tank tactic which deacreases armor but boosts dmg.
It's fine to have rock paper scissor mentality and that you can instakill lets say every other melee class. But you need to be a freekill for ranged and magic in this case.

imho riposte should be a counter attack that rolls against the targets def % & stats & uses the auto attack speed & auto damage of the player who has slotted the riposte tatic, i would also let riposte crit & work on all damage types (melee,range.magic) while within melee range & becomes a spell/range reflect while not in melee range

[Sinisterror]

Riposte in AOR had 1s ICD but it could do critical dmg as well. Just remove all the % based dmg increases(slayer choppa 50%+ dmg mechanic espesially) on wpn procs,riposte,divine fury etc and definetely remove them from grp dmg procs like wp/dok sorc/bw and this problem is solved

[oaliaen]

This game Will never be perfect ugh...

[akisnaakkeli]

Current riposte tactic is broken for sure and would have needed a hotfix the day after that change / patch got released.
It should be viable and strong, but 0,25s cooldown on proc is just ... yeah, don't do that Kinda surprised it got on live like this.

In live Procs were 025s icd but Riposte was 1s(or 05s) but it could do crit dmg as well, and Leonine Frenzy was 05s icd, and could crit with Witchbrew=) Now % based things like tactics or sl/ch mechanics boost affect wpn/grp dmg procs and do 600 prayer of wraths and no one else goes over 300 in your party with it. Make Le,Wb,Riposte crit again and increase riposte icd to 1s but not be affected by %

Live like on live RoR wise, not AoR.

I don't have anything against riposte, quite the contrary, I think it's a great tactic and tool.
But as it is right now, it's overperforming vs fast hitting melee classes and some changes to the icd, like 0,5-1s would still make it very very strong and useful in 1on1 and small scale but wouldn't punish 5-6 fast attacks with 2k+ reflection. (which can easily happen in like 3s)
If critting or mitigation should be possible, don't ask me that. That's for the balance team to decide. I am just 1000% sure that it needs some attention and further balancing as it isn't in a good state atm.
Same goes ofc for other classes and abilities or tactics.

It's just very frustrating and also alarming that there was not hotfix/change/feedback to this "problem". Not even a "we will monitor it or look into it and balance it further if needed". NOTHING. That's pretty much the opposite what they playerbase had hoped/expected for.

Im not disagreeing with you on anything so i should have been clearer. I mean that In Aor ICD was 025s for bw/wp prayer, kisses etc. In RoR Icd has been 1-2s in for a long time and i remember the times when i was on my dps dok,survived Repel but i instakilled myself from M1 avoidances because of Riposte and i dont want those times back either : D 1s Icd on Riposte would be appropriate if it crits, but all grp dmg procs shouldnt be affected by % Mechanics or tactics etc and Slayer with full red hits same amount with jagged edge and Riposte as Witch Elf with same exact stats with That Slayer.

My main was Dps Wp in Aor and i know that you know how much restricting all AP based melee heals are gone now when 2h/Dw. And ofc no Grp melee heal at all as now its shield only. Soulfire/Fe now costs 35resourses... And people dont seem to think why judgement/fok hits kind of hard compared to all other "throw axe" skills and reason is that is kinda the best way to give them some chance against Rangeds so this skill needs to be 15ap and gives 15resourses. I loved Old Guilty soul as well because it healed def target nice amounts<3

Now Devour essence 150ft ranged Heal debuffing 4-5people and healing that def target to full at same time is gone with the ae HD.. Now it would take 2 career point and a tactic slot make Se HD..

"-The removal of AOE heal debuff.
Now I really don't know why you would even consider removing such a vital CORE utility from the game. What were you thinking?
I know that I fought some former staff member leading a group in BFP that night with my half assed warband as a dps dok.
This person gets his ass handed back to him and over night there is a sudden little hotfix note WITH SPOILER that said: AOE healdebuff is been removed from the game.
Seriously? Is it that painfull to get killed by ******? Can't handle the pain to get **** on by the "pug leader" so it must be broken and nerfed?

This 3rd change made everything collapse basically, small scale legit died out and reduced to warcamp and straggler ganking.
Organized-"

" Zerging is really bad and the weak minded bandwagon to destro as ezi bags hangarounds.
So instead of punishing the bag farmin or implementing other zerg/overpopulation punish measures what do you do?
You increase the AOE cap from 9 to 24 people.
Throw ALL abilities into an abyss of an unbalanced state.
Making keep fights a hell.
Literally encouraging people to stack more dps ergo more people to win a fight, because gank > tank.
Utility abilities like cooldown/casttime increase, aoe heal debuff, moral drain etc are a total shitshow for a while."

[Tastykate]

I would add that announcing a restart of the balance could bring back many players who have been disappointed by class changes that are sometimes a bit arbitrary (we've all heard of other servers that wanted to be closer to AoR).
[/quote]

R.I.P Oathstone

[Sever1n]

Actually im with the topicstarter guy. This patch was a big spit into order face and i dont want to suffer half of year till devs fix this mess.

[Lisutaris]

Actually im with the topicstarter guy. This patch was a big spit into order face and i dont want to suffer half of year till devs fix this mess.

Before that it was years of spitting into destro face I mean, there isn't any need to bias one faction here. May I remember you of the 6slayer city premade warbands ... If you were lucky it was only 4-5. This was going on for a very very long time.
If balancing is done in a good way, it will get lesser by time until it is completely balanced. It's also easy to check, especially on city premades. If there is one class dominating it isn't out of luck and needs to be looked at.

I am for example completely against a reversing of the last balance patch, as it was good regarding unification of stuff. Be it snares (30%) and duration of stuff and sharing the same internal cooldown. It's just sad/annoying that no fast adjusting/hotfixing is happening where it's needed atm.

[Nameless]

After ability patch orders are doing way better esp at wb level play. Just check last 5-6 lotd. Replacing pull meta with proc meta changed so many things.
These macro changes favouring orders realm more. Individual balance got his up and downs but that is process that is not over yet