Let's discuss AoE CC

[Paxsanarion]

Might be a terrible idea or it might not. But considering the population status of the server and how difficult it’s going to be to balance, everything and satisfy everyone instead of the endless back-and-forth discussions about this class, or this faction is stronger than the other why don’t we just mirror everything exactly? All you would need to do is decide how you want each class type to perform and what role you want it to have And then just mirror that to each side. And be done with it. And then everybody could just play the game and focus on fighting and having fun instead of people xrealming to this side or that side because it’s easier faction etc

This way players that want to do competitive tournaments or serious organized RVR will all be on the same level playing field. The most organized and best players would win. There would not be any way to claim bias or any of that. You would just focus on playing the faction that you like because of aesthetics and lore. Realm pride etc

[iraoul]

It's interesting to get feedback from a player about AoE CC, especially after the Ability Rework.

Unfortunately, the post is a little biased and this is completely understandable since it highlights spells unique to Destruction.

Let's discuss GtdC first.

Spoiler:

To me, if GtdC doesn't pull and so, doesn't give immunities, it will be a big up for the Destruction (especially for the WB that try to assist ST between AoE channels).

When I press a button, I expect to extract some kind of value from it. GtdC has 3 potential values:

- Move Speed buff
- The AoE damage
- The pull/interrupt

Depending on the context, the value I can extract from it may vary:

- If I'm rooted, I won't benefit from the move speed buff.
- If there's no one around me, I won't benefit from the damage.
- If the target has immunity, I won't be able to pull it.

Each portion of the skill carries values that can be translated into damage. Now, I believe the argument here is that if the Choppa pulls a target, it lowers the potential value of another 'movable' crowd control, let's say a punt. And that crowd control also carries potential value that can be translated into damage.

Removing the pull from GtdC will result in guaranteeing the potential value of another crowd control while lowering the potential value of GtdC. That's what I understand when I read, "it will be a big up for the Destruction (especially for the WB that try to assist ST between AoE channels)." And while I agree that the potential value of a punt in that context (WB with AoE and ST) is higher than the pull itself, I think removing the pull component of that skill is not the appropriate response to balance the skill.

GtdC without the pull would be reduced to 'the other dull AoE of the Choppa.' Removing the pull from GtdC removes an option for the class that lacks utility. The crowd control that provides the pull (when it works) is useful in some situations and creates chaos in others. If you remove the pull from it, you not only remove the crowd control/interrupt but also the flexibility the skill provides (you can choose to use it for the pull and/or the damage, plus you have the option to cancel it).

Yes, it grants immunities, but so do other abilities (BO AoE punt, AoE tank root). And I agree it's a shame when we perceive it as a 'waste' of an immunity (and it is if we try to optimize damage in large groups). To me, the problem for the Choppa is that it's tied to a skill that also provides good AoE damage. It's okay to have to choose if you use it (and potentially give immunities to crucial targets) or not. And I am a firm believer that some powerful skills must have counterplay and/or flaws (such as GtdC which has both).

You also have to take into consideration that it will greatly boost the potential damage from Destruction. And then you will need to adjust (balance?) the damage accordingly. Meaning you will lose the utility AND the damage (to compensate for the removal of these flaws).

In summary, removing the pull from GtdC equals removing utility, removing damage (from the Choppa after balance), and removing the fun (yeah, I find this skill fun to play... which is rare in that game).

Quick note:
I am not an expert in balance, but I like to consider the entire picture of a subject before addressing it. If the issue is the immunity, perhaps the skill can be tweaked to pull 'only' the selected target every 2 seconds (instead of a random target).

Throughout the whole duration of GtdC, the Choppa will have the chance to pull the target they currently have selected. It's a cool idea because the skill of the Choppa could influence the value of the skill. If the Choppa does not target anyone, there's no crowd control, hence no immunity.

Of course, it sounds overpowered because it will result in a significant buff for competent Choppas. Therefore, other aspects of the skill should be nerfed accordingly.

But yeah, I'm not a fan of the "if it's a problem, remove it entirely" approach.