Scenario Matchmaking Rework Megathread

[Bozzax]

Here are some reasonable questions to ponder when deciding what a good system is

1. Why are 6man groups allowed to queue SCs with randoms wo being queued in the group ranked queue at the same time? What are the positives / negatives of such a change?

2. What is the purpose of barriers? What other side effects does barriers give? (Good / bad?)

3. What is the intended purpose of surrender and what is the real outcomes (not intended outcome lets say premades playing for a surrender is a thing). Is making a really uneven match end faster making the experience of the queue as a whole better by ending the sc? What would be the benefit of not ending early?

4. Whati s the benefit of tieringat 40/XX vs a tiering that is based around lets say total stats? Would lets say 4+ days playtime be a good tiering when pooled with lets say players that have 300+ days

5. Why do we have a discordant queue, purpose and outcome? What would the benefits be from removing it? What would we loose? Why was it introduced at all? (root cause). Would a larger player pool in queue have any positive effects? (hint we see high rank players like Zarbix (just an example) queuing discordant queue and semi-afking in lake .... is this the wanted effect)

6. What is the benefit of playing one sc map for an entire weekend. Is it fun to play just one map? Could it be more fun with more maps?

7. Why are SCs limited to XvX ..... would it like RvR be possible to use numbers as a balancer? Would adding more players to really uneven be an improvement or would the stronger side feel ill treated?

8. Why are rule sets and maps linked 1:1 and would there be some side effect from having maps and rule sets being decoupled?

9. Would a matchmaker that uses one algorithm at low pops and another one at high pops make it more easy to cope with ebb and flow?

10 How could active sc-maps and open rvr-zones support each other and form a cohesive experience? Can they be linked? Would there be any possitives or is it just a stupid idea with IP and lore?

11. What are the player persona groups that the queue tries to make happy and what are these groups concerns and what makes them satisfied (what metrics is actually important)?

12. Could win streaks be a reason for the matchmaker to make harder opposition for that strong side? What would the benefit be? What would the downside be?

13. The ppl playing suppot classes seem to be on ATL making queue balancing even more complicated ... so would it be an improvement to promote good support play (reward this more) and possibly look at the multi-year power creep of dps that seem to be a RoR thing (a tad speculative but at least it looks that way)

14. Hope you get it right

[Akalukz]

just get rid of surrender. It is not a great asset to the game anyways.

[Nameless]

just get rid of surrender. It is not a great asset to the game anyways.

Yes, being idle for 15 mins behind barrier is top notch gameplay

[akisnaakkeli]

Barriers away and Guards back! 2-3k renown from guard kill is enough to get rid of surrender. And also reward(if with nothing else RENOWN) if you are getting camped, manage to get away and get 3 solo kills, all those kills should be minimum 3k renown because all the odds are very against you in that situation already.

So if i ask to get PvP lvl(renown) for killing another players in Sc's why is this not obviously a good thing? And bring back WARCHEST(2500 war-crests) dropping from rr70+ and quite rarely.

And NOPE im not saying "Solo in Scs and do your own thing" im saying if there is guards + good renown from kills when its otherwise 500-50 loss but hey i got 8k renown anyway as a loosing side because i took the high risk high reward route and got some kills that i have little chance of getting.

[Dackjanielz]

“We are also hoping to improve the scenario grouping if for any reason a premade is put against a pick up group. Although we want to mainly not mix pugs and premades.”

This is a really big worry. The game should promote players for making premades, not potentially punish them. If this system punishes you for forming a group by just not giving you scenario pops, that would be terrible.

In general I think that no scenario should pop without every group having at least 1 tank and 1 healer. If a full premade enters the scenario you could increase that restriction to always having a 2-2-2, so there is a good fighting chance. A random 2-2-2 with good players can still beat a bad full premade in a 12v12+ scenario.

Of course if there are an equal amount of premades on both sides they can be matched against each other. But if the system forces it, additional rewards would be fair. In general I think the rewards of scenarios vs RvR are imbalanced at the moment. Only feels worth doing scenarios during the weekend event.

You shouldn't even be encouraging premades, if people don't want to do it - they wont do it.

Instead you should be rewarding people simply for joining AT all.

This goes for the entire game infact - RVR SCs City whatever right........Both sides should be rewarded nicely but the winner takes a bonus.

Constantly dogging the losers is NOT good game design, if you force people out of warcamps then they will simply stop joining, i know i would.

[zulnam]

heavily reward losers that group up. getting stomped. well at least you're playing the game right.

ror suffers from two things:
- it is a highly complex team oriented game that is broken at it's core due to missing one of the pillars of massive faction based pvp game: it is missing a 3rd faction.
- population

since neither can be fixed in our lifetimes because ror has the budget of a potato farmer too shy to sell their work, i don't think any more major tweaks to scenarios are worth the effort.

hell, screw the scenarios. make the 3rd faction in lotD a playable faction that players from both faction can queue for.

models can be basic. no need to show gear. and its one race so you only need to create 4 classes.

actually screw the classes too. just let them keep their class. let order and destro play together in lotd. not a novel concept, it was done in ranked.

aoe slayers and choppas, together at last in death.

[mekal]

leave surrender in game but give people that vote yes quitter debuff getting back to back chain surrenders is worse than no sc pop at all

[Garamore]

I play alot of scens myself here and back then on war. And unlike you I play both sweaty prems and soloing. All scens with guards gives much more opportunities for fights. It is still not equal but it is fight and pugs if good enough could make comeback. When barrier is there, you could get just farm fest for premade.
It is kinda sad that this is your preferred gameplay

Totally agree with this. In scens like battle for praag you could at least use the guards to kill 1-2 and make some kind of comeback. With the barriers its just wipe and afk till surrender. Live version of guards was far far better than RoR. If you are so sweaty getting killed hurts you so much then dont go near guards.

[Dackjanielz]

I play alot of scens myself here and back then on war. And unlike you I play both sweaty prems and soloing. All scens with guards gives much more opportunities for fights. It is still not equal but it is fight and pugs if good enough could make comeback. When barrier is there, you could get just farm fest for premade.
It is kinda sad that this is your preferred gameplay

Totally agree with this. In scens like battle for praag you could at least use the guards to kill 1-2 and make some kind of comeback. With the barriers its just wipe and afk till surrender. Live version of guards was far far better than RoR. If you are so sweaty getting killed hurts you so much then dont go near guards.

I have never experienced this Guard system but if it rewards the losers then i'm all for it!

Constantly punishing the side that's not winning is NOT the way.

[Phantasm]

The Guards fetish has got an other side of coin, there are kite groups that dont fight in a middle if they are facing equal premade, they kite back to guards and bait a mistake, then they press on opponent. Is it better then bariers we have right now? Only time will tell and how a topic will be aproach with balance team.