Balance vs Fun

[Culexus]

I was gonna post this in the "Nothing is OP if everything is OP" thread but it was probably too off topic. Thought it may be an interesting discussion though as the same discussion has been going on in the Warhammer 40k tabletop community for the last few years with the changes that have been made to that game to balance it and make it more accessible. The discussion has been around those that want the game to evolve into a balanced, competitive game, and those that want it to stick to its roots of what made 40k great in the first place.

Without going into the details, modern 40k tabletop focusses its rules on competitive tournament play and does frequent army balance updates around tournament win rates to try and keep them as close to 50% win rate as possible. This has resulted in the game being the most balanced it's ever been, but the game has (imo) lost its soul to achieve it. All the armies play more or less the same, the missions are all the same, the battlefields are all the same. All the depth, diversity, and complexity of old 40k has gone, and although now it's great game and more popular than it's ever been, it's no longer a war game.

Is RoR heading down this path? I don't think so. Even though I personally find no reason to log in at moment due to some of the balance changes. But it is something that could potentially happen as balance updates move forward.

After all the patches are done the game could land up being the most balanced it's ever been, but will it have to sacrifice the essence of what made us love WAR to achieve it?

EDIT: and just to clarify before anyone says it, I'm not suggesting that balance or fun are mutually exclusive.

[norealein]

I can agree to the fact that there is a downfall in balancing things, especially how they are balanced in the recent times on this server.
There is something very discouraging about how recent adjustments to classes and overall class balancing (while in most parts justified) were made on the basis of "disabling" certain playstyle.
This (at least for me and the ppl i talk to) has lead to a sense of discouragement to play the classes I like, as almost every (especially DPS) spec or type of playing a class had something major taken away from it in recent times, without getting ANY viable alternative in return. Be it the overall AOE range nerf, the change to the way DPS require 180° angle vision on the target, or nerfs (be it in general needed) to slayer/choppa aoe playstyles.

Yes we need balancing.

But the way of only taking away things, while not giving something else thats at least new and worth a try or buffing something underused at the same time, just makes playing the classes time was invested in less fun.

I feel like the fun would be much more there, and we would be much more accepting of balancing changes if it wasn't just the hammer, but also the carrot (be it minor) to less used specs at the same time.

[anstalt]

There are many ways to achieve balance.

Making everything the same is one way - but that's the boring way, the easy way. Its also the way that many mmo devs over the years have gone.

I prefer the rock-paper-scissors method, where everyone can beat some people, and lose to other people. I think WAR has mostly stuck to this method.


The final method is the "i don't know what im doing" method, where devs just seems to randomly buff and nerf things on a regular basis. Nothing is ever actually balanced, but the balance changes regularly so if you play for long enough, eventually your class will be OP, then rubbish, then back to OP. A lot of MMOs follow this method, and it can keep things fresh, but it also annoys a lot of people.

[Wdova]

There are many ways to achieve balance.

Making everything the same is one way - but that's the boring way, the easy way. Its also the way that many mmo devs over the years have gone.

I prefer the rock-paper-scissors method, where everyone can beat some people, and lose to other people. I think WAR has mostly stuck to this method.


The final method is the "i don't know what im doing" method, where devs just seems to randomly buff and nerf things on a regular basis. Nothing is ever actually balanced, but the balance changes regularly so if you play for long enough, eventually your class will be OP, then rubbish, then back to OP. A lot of MMOs follow this method, and it can keep things fresh, but it also annoys a lot of people.

I’m glad that I’m not alone who feel it the same way.

[Toshutkidup]

I would agree that balance vs fun is always an issue, especially if unbalanced is more fun than purely balanced, then also have some people who prefer to have a superior vs weaker balance so domination can happen vs pure stalemates. Just my.02

[salazarn]

There are many ways to achieve balance.

Making everything the same is one way - but that's the boring way, the easy way. Its also the way that many mmo devs over the years have gone.

I prefer the rock-paper-scissors method, where everyone can beat some people, and lose to other people. I think WAR has mostly stuck to this method.


The final method is the "i don't know what im doing" method, where devs just seems to randomly buff and nerf things on a regular basis. Nothing is ever actually balanced, but the balance changes regularly so if you play for long enough, eventually your class will be OP, then rubbish, then back to OP. A lot of MMOs follow this method, and it can keep things fresh, but it also annoys a lot of people.

That's what wow did over the years and the result was stale crappy classes with watered down abilities. Its probably a much safer way to balance tho if ur scared of peoples reactions.