SC Quee system rework status

[Dackjanielz]

scs used to be fun, now that 95% of scs are 500-0 one sided farm feast.

Scenarios were just as bad in live toward the end. The problem gets worse as the game ages because premades are made of veterans and their gear gets better over time, while pugs are largely a mix of newish/casual players, whose gear remains stagnant (since players are always leaving and being replaced with new players).

Another problem is RoR combat itself. Small advantages create massive disparities in performance.

Also, RoR scenarios are terrible. 80% of them are simple meatgrinders that force both sides to fight over one objective. The only scenario that stands out to me as providing anything consistently like a close match with some fun fights is Old Dwarf Road.

That's correct - alot of the maps used to be more like old dwarf road but the devs redesigned them to be hur dur blobs in the middle.

So of course as soon as its clear who the winning side is the losers go and hide in spawn until its over, but they cant even do that now hahaha!

So whats the next course of action? Don't do SC's at all.

*RIP Thunder valley, you used to be one of the best maps.... No longer.

[Nekkma]

scs used to be fun, now that 95% of scs are 500-0 one sided farm feast.

Scenarios were just as bad in live toward the end. The problem gets worse as the game ages because premades are made of veterans and their gear gets better over time, while pugs are largely a mix of newish/casual players, whose gear remains stagnant (since players are always leaving and being replaced with new players).

Another problem is RoR combat itself. Small advantages create massive disparities in performance.

Also, RoR scenarios are terrible. 80% of them are simple meatgrinders that force both sides to fight over one objective. The only scenario that stands out to me as providing anything consistently like a close match with some fun fights is Old Dwarf Road.

I agree to some extent although I think the general quality of scenarios where better on live (even in the late stages) by a good margin. As you point out, the scenarios on RoR have been changed to promote deathmatching over a single objective. In such scenarios the better side will crush the opponent, leaving the losing side with no options. If we add the ror created scenarios with rotating spawnpoints, splitting the losing side and creating a snowball effect in favour of the winners, the general scenario structure is like you said terrible.

Take battle for praag as an example, you used to be able to back cap flags. This led to splitting up of the dominating side, which allowed for ganking and smaller fights with the possibility of better odds for the losing side. Most of that are gone now. Most scenarios are just a team deathmatch in the middle. Twisting tower was one of my least favorite ones on live but here on ror I actually like it as it provides something different.

It also feels as if the points from objectives are significantly speed up here compared to live meaning the scenario is pretty much decicded after first clash which leads to players giving up. on live comebacks was alot more common than here.

Given all this it would be good to basically make a reset of scenarios to live version and work on improvements from that point

[Dackjanielz]

scs used to be fun, now that 95% of scs are 500-0 one sided farm feast.

Scenarios were just as bad in live toward the end. The problem gets worse as the game ages because premades are made of veterans and their gear gets better over time, while pugs are largely a mix of newish/casual players, whose gear remains stagnant (since players are always leaving and being replaced with new players).

Another problem is RoR combat itself. Small advantages create massive disparities in performance.

Also, RoR scenarios are terrible. 80% of them are simple meatgrinders that force both sides to fight over one objective. The only scenario that stands out to me as providing anything consistently like a close match with some fun fights is Old Dwarf Road.

I agree to some extent although I think the general quality of scenarios where better on live (even in the late stages) by a good margin. As you point out, the scenarios on RoR have been changed to promote deathmatching over a single objective. In such scenarios the better side will crush the opponent, leaving the losing side with no options. If we add the ror created scenarios with rotating spawnpoints, splitting the losing side and creating a snowball effect in favour of the winners, the general scenario structure is like you said terrible.

Take battle for praag as an example, you used to be able to back cap flags. This led to splitting up of the dominating side, which allowed for ganking and smaller fights with the possibility of better odds for the losing side. Most of that are gone now. Most scenarios are just a team deathmatch in the middle. Twisting tower was one of my least favorite ones on live but here on ror I actually like it as it provides something different.

It also feels as if the points from objectives are significantly speed up here compared to live meaning the scenario is pretty much decicded after first clash which leads to players giving up. on live comebacks was alot more common than here.

Given all this it would be good to basically make a reset of scenarios to live version and work on improvements from that point

Correct, Thunder valley used to be all 5 points active so the losing side had a secondary objective and the ability to break up the blob so they could stand a chance at fighting back - Now thats removed, now they have NO chance of fighting back.

So the only option is to hide in spawn, oh wait the devs just killed that too, never mind lets just not play altogether - the only true winning option.

Really sad that this needs to be explained, feels like teaching someone to not walk off a cliff.

[bichka]

imho best option will be to deny soloers for all scs except 1-2 (including event one)
so prems will fight with prems, pugs will play with pugs

but there should be a carrot on stick for groups, thats all

[shoelessHN]

imho best option will be to deny soloers for all scs except 1-2 (including event one)
so prems will fight with prems, pugs will play with pugs

but there should be a carrot on stick for groups, thats all

They have that, it's called group ranked. Groups do not want to play that. They want to farm pugs.

[lemao]

imho best option will be to deny soloers for all scs except 1-2 (including event one)
so prems will fight with prems, pugs will play with pugs

but there should be a carrot on stick for groups, thats all

They have that, it's called group ranked. Groups do not want to play that. They want to farm pugs.

Horrible argument .How am I going to be successful on my magus in group ranked ? Or let´s say any composition which is not suited for it ?
Already missing 1 important class like a rp or zealot heavily hinders your team.

[Zxul]

imho best option will be to deny soloers for all scs except 1-2 (including event one)
so prems will fight with prems, pugs will play with pugs

but there should be a carrot on stick for groups, thats all

They have that, it's called group ranked. Groups do not want to play that. They want to farm pugs.

Horrible argument .How am I going to be successful on my magus in group ranked ? Or let´s say any composition which is not suited for it ?
Already missing 1 important class like a rp or zealot heavily hinders your team.

Enlighten me, what is the difference fighting premade vs premade, in ranked vs in regular sc? Unless the intention is fighting the pug and not the premades in regular scs, that is.

[Allonairre]

imho best option will be to deny soloers for all scs except 1-2 (including event one)
so prems will fight with prems, pugs will play with pugs

but there should be a carrot on stick for groups, thats all

They have that, it's called group ranked. Groups do not want to play that. They want to farm pugs.

Horrible argument .How am I going to be successful on my magus in group ranked ? Or let´s say any composition which is not suited for it ?
Already missing 1 important class like a rp or zealot heavily hinders your team.

To be fair if all groups were Qing grouped ranked then there would be other sub optimal groups q’d for you to fight.

I don’t think solo/duo should be banned from Qing SCs and I don’t think groups should be banned. But Discordant needs to function better so solo and perhaps duos (who are added to q as 2 solo players) can get good balanced fights.

This can be extended to include event discordant in weekends.

Solos can q regular SCs understanding that this may be rough. Perhaps have, as suggested in other thread, visible queue so you can help manage the balance by swapping characters.

[lemao]

They have that, it's called group ranked. Groups do not want to play that. They want to farm pugs.

Horrible argument .How am I going to be successful on my magus in group ranked ? Or let´s say any composition which is not suited for it ?
Already missing 1 important class like a rp or zealot heavily hinders your team.

Enlighten me, what is the difference fighting premade vs premade, in ranked vs in regular sc? Unless the intention is fighting the pug and not the premades in regular scs, that is.

Sure.
In regular scs you have minimum of 12 players (sometimes even 18 man scs) where non meta 6v6 classes are viable (i.e. mostly ranged classes)
These classes have no presence in strict 6v6 group ranked scs because meele is heavily favored there, It does not make a huge difference when you are missing a key class like like a zealot or rp in regular scs with more poeple. In group ranked it does.

[Everdin]

Horrible argument .How am I going to be successful on my magus in group ranked ? Or let´s say any composition which is not suited for it ?
Already missing 1 important class like a rp or zealot heavily hinders your team.

Enlighten me, what is the difference fighting premade vs premade, in ranked vs in regular sc? Unless the intention is fighting the pug and not the premades in regular scs, that is.

Sure.
In regular scs you have minimum of 12 players (sometimes even 18 man scs) where non meta 6v6 classes are viable (i.e. mostly ranged classes)
These classes have no presence in strict 6v6 group ranked scs because meele is heavily favored there, It does not make a huge difference when you are missing a key class like like a zealot or rp in regular scs with more poeple. In group ranked it does.

You won't be succesfull explaing to some guys here that there are differences between normal sc and ranked, they have their pitchforks and torches and they want to use them, no matter what you say. Most solos are superior and the only thing preventing them from ruling this game is premades of all kind!

Edit: Could you please move this thread to the other "premades are the root of all evil" thread? I mean the SC "Rework" thread, so people do not have to write all the hate posts again?