Fortlogging, keepdefences and other mythical creatures

[wonshot]

Hello,

In this topic please behave and keep the tone civil. If you are going to contribute, then attempt to do so coming in willing to listen to other posters argumentation and have a mindset willing to be convinced, dont just come in to drop your hot-topic of the day such as "buhu SW op plz nerf"

The topic I wanna debate, is that Fortress defences argubly have something that is appealing.
Now why is that(?)

If we compare an endzone (Chaos waste, Reikland, Kadrin, BC, Cale, Eatain) and if there is a situation of attacking realm is about to siege, how come there might be 60% aao for the defenders but then when a fortress in the following zone opens up then defenders appear out of nowhere. If I can ask anyone who is following this far, remember, dont just drop your hate comments such as "buhu fortloggers". lets instead think about what the reasoning might be, and if we figure that out, maybe we can provide feedback for the developers about playerbase behaviour and direction changes could be made in. ok?

First of all lets mention some of the heated topics related to this:
a) Why are we as attackers pushing zones and noone comes out to fight us, but then the moment its a fortress we are suddenly even numbers or outnumbered
b) Why are the defenders not coming out to defend the endzone keep but instead building warbands for the fortress zone
c) After a fortress has concluded why are some of the players that showed up for the fortress, not coming out into rvr again afterwards

Most of these I would like to cover under the system of a frotress.
The way fortress mechanics work are quite good for providing a fight for the following reasons:
a) You know there will be a good amount of attackers (defenders in case of Order realm generally speaking)
b) The stages provide for a natural recruiting phase. When theres garenteed fight + time to build its easier to put something together to fight back.
c) The objectives matter, and the stages are required so people will generally focus on captureing BOs and push the door open.

So if we compare those last three points to oRvR zone mechanics there is no ganrenteed fight, those fights are playerdriven it depends on who is online and playing in the rvr zones. You can build something fight the enemy once and they can disappear because they lost or because their playtime is up. There are not stages which makes for natural end-of-play-sessions, outside of finished keepsieges. But the Box/BO stage is everlasting for as long as the zone is open, and only decreasing in value as keeps get to two stars.

Since the devs seem to be in experimental mood with Scenario barrier, spawncamp and other mechanics, and we are also testing lower aao cap on 9 atm.
Would it be an idea to have 3 open pairrings as a test. And then zones having a "phase" each of the realms pushing to get 1star first to get a renown tick zonewide based on kill/bos contribution. but only one of the realms can get it per star. So if Destro is first realm to get a star they get the tick even if order later on get the 1star. Then gradually as the Stars are unlocked the ticks are bigger in base value + contribution.

[Zxul]

b) Why are the defenders not coming out to defend the endzone keep but instead building warbands for the fortress zone

Knowing ror, easier time to farm defending fort.

Since the devs seem to be in experimental mood with Scenario barrier, spawncamp and other mechanics, and we are also testing lower aao cap on 9 atm.
Would it be an idea to have 3 open pairrings as a test. And then zones having a "phase" each of the realms pushing to get 1star first to get a renown tick zonewide based on kill/bos contribution. but only one of the realms can get it per star. So if Destro is first realm to get a star they get the tick even if order later on get the 1star. Then gradually as the Stars are unlocked the ticks are bigger in base value + contribution.

Question is how much- just did some roaming in zone on chosen, followed by a keep attack with some defenders. 1 k or so renown for lord, 500 or so for zone. As logically star ticks will net less renown than a zone lock, not sure who will care about those.

[Panel]

Regarding the situation where one faction - ah lets not beat around the bush and call a spade a spade - the situation where Destro pushes a fort with order AAO that miraculously vanishes ( this is the situation 99% of the time) there are many theories. I have no idea which is the most likely but we all know it will happen.
Do ppl really Fortlog - ie get out of bed, put their dinner in the oven, stop their RL activities to do a fort - i dunno - cant imagine doing it myself so i maybe incorrectly think others don't either - kinda sad if they do . If so its easy to stop it by locking out anyone not active the zone in last <insert short time frame>. You could go a step further and make participation in the keep defense a requirement for a fort "ticket"- no just sitting in the fort waiting for the attack - if you havent participated in the defense its insta kick from the fort if the keep falls. Dont worry i see all the holes in this and how to work round it - so in principle a mechanic is needed that to denies fort access to those who havent been involved in the push/defense.

[Akalukz]

IMO many end zones are extremely hard to get to a keep to defend, if there enemy is overwhelming the chance of a 6 man or 12 man making it to the keep is near impossible. So they just go to the fort, in forts most 6 man teams join other groups because #'s matter in the lord room where ever group buff/heal matters.

In other words, i think people would defend more keeps, if there was a way to do it, and to figure out how many others are doing it. Nothing worse than having to run PVE through a zone to back into a keep, to find out there are no defenders and you would have made more renown ganking the zerg tail.

At a fort your 6 man can gank the zerg tail for a little bit, but eventually you have to go to the fort to find a fight.

EDIT" maybe make a box port everyone in your party to the keep. So 4 boxes could port in a whole wb.

[Lion1986]

Just my 2 cents idea: many fortlog because rvr is boring or they level an alt so it is more profitable make scenarios/dungeons/farm for professions than zerg in rvr pushing zones that mean nothing at the end of the day. (Responding to you C point)

[wonshot]

Regarding the situation where one faction - ah lets not beat around the bush and call a spade a spade - the situation where Destro pushes a fort with order AAO that miraculously vanishes ( this is the situation 99% of the time) there are many theories. I have no idea which is the most likely but we all know it will happen.
Do ppl really Fortlog - ie get out of bed, put their dinner in the oven, stop their RL activities to do a fort - i dunno - cant imagine doing it myself so i maybe incorrectly think others don't either - kinda sad if they do .

I dont mind shredding some light on it from Order prespective.
There is a pug leader who forms warbands for 90% of forts in a 2-2-2 text lead warband. its not the greatest, but it is consistant and it brings people and when you see that a fort is about to happen when being ingame doing scenarios or pve/ afk idling then you know there will be a spot, a warband that is 2-2-2 to lean on, or to join. That alone probably carries alot of appeal for people to stop their current activity and participate. Same example as I would use about EU afternoon, alot of destro are probably enjoying how often Zorbax has a spot for them with high consistansy.

What I personally like about Forts, and what made me stop queuing scenarios this morning despite needing them for the event. Is that forts have a natural stop. I know that if I join the fort, it will take 30-60mins and then I can do cooking groceries or irl stuff afterwards. its a good time for a playsession, with pretty high chance of some largescale number clases during stage2 as both sides bring good numbers on Destro attacks (for some reason destro defences are the opposit of order fortress defences) And that might be for the same reasons, consistancy in knowing order will show up, and destro will not generally speaking in defences with few exceptions.

I dont think theres any archtype or voodoo magic involved, I think it mostly comes down to consistancy, attendance and snowball effect with high/low morale from the two realms. But the post was mostly to look at why those available defenders are coming to the fortress, and not to the endzone. And that, I would speculate is due to fort mechanics to capture BOs breaking the door and the almost garenteed 100v100 fight plus a natural end and break afterwards.

[waerter]

For me the answer to the question is simple: forts have a certain balance. The risk of being faced with a 4x superiority of opposing players is significantly lower. The attackers are 20 percent more, but the fort still has a certain fairness.

Why should I go to the Open at a time when the "Zorbax/Gigi/Grufrip/XXX"-Blob chases every group that shows up until only PvD is left?

They have successfully managed to kill the Open RVR for the last few months until the first Premade Order Warbands start in the evening.
And even if they start earlier, like this afternoon. Then 3 Order groups face 3 Destro Warbands. 18 vs 60 isnt a fair fight.
And the game simply becomes unplayable as an order if the website says 45/65. Which i have seen several times recently.

And in the fort there is at least a chance of holding out against it. This is my personal reason for leaving other things in the game and defending Reikwald, Shining Way and Stonewatch.

[xarfay]

And the game simply becomes unplayable as an order if the website says 45/65. Which i have seen several times recently.

45/65? sure

#mathskillsopaf kekw

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my suggestion was (and some guys laughed about this couple days ago on ROR DC) - only people who have contribution (maybe something like in LOTD with the mats) on the zone before should be able to get into fort.. and this means same way for attackers and defenders. so that we avoid this "sitting in altdorf 24h and waiting for reik fort to login" and defend easy mode...

this has nothing to do with they are more ppl (attackers), this has something to do with ez mode fort def... everyone knows its ez mode to def a fort compare to attack a fort...

if this will be giving we also would have more ppl on the zone before fort (attackers and defenders wise),.... and we would have less pvdoor on both sides, because you have to do something to get your crests/bags...

thats my 2cents

[Voldt]

For me the answer to the question is simple: forts have a certain balance. The risk of being faced with a 4x superiority of opposing players is significantly lower. The attackers are 20 percent more, but the fort still has a certain fairness.

Why should I go to the Open at a time when the "Zorbax/Gigi/Grufrip/XXX"-Blob chases every group that shows up until only PvD is left?

They have successfully managed to kill the Open RVR for the last few months until the first Premade Order Warbands start in the evening.
And even if they start earlier, like this afternoon. Then 3 Order groups face 3 Destro Warbands. 18 vs 60 isnt a fair fight.
And the game simply becomes unplayable as an order if the website says 45/65. Which i have seen several times recently.

And in the fort there is at least a chance of holding out against it. This is my personal reason for leaving other things in the game and defending Reikwald, Shining Way and Stonewatch.

Which blob do you mean? There is no blob since the warbands you mentioned run independently. When Destro bands together temporarily it's because of especially certain mondays and wednesdays (+ weekends) when the game is borderline unplayable for Destro due to certain Order warband blobs running.

Apart from that, it's always the same with forts. As soon as a fort defense starts, Order's numbers skyrocket out of nowhere. But sure, Destro is the real culprit here.

If you want to deny that, you are delusional. Simple as that.

[waerter]

45/65? sure

Sorry my error. I meant 45/55 .

this has nothing to do with they are more ppl (attackers), this has something to do with ez mode fort def... everyone knows its ez mode to def a fort compare to attack a fort...

Then ill invite destros to also def forts. Because its ez mode.

Which blob do you mean? There is no blob since the warbands you mentioned run independently. When Destro bands together temporarily it's because of especially certain mondays and wednesdays (+ weekends) when the game is borderline unplayable for Destro due to certain Order warband blobs running.

Is that the reason why they flank together when an order WB arrives somewhere? Is that the reason why I see the WB-Leader Markers so often together?

How many order zone locks have you seen recently compared to destro? Look at the Kill statistics. Count the hours when destros are in the majority. You can use SOR or the Server Status or the React website. It all says the same.

Apart from that, it's always the same with forts. As soon as a fort defense starts, Order's numbers skyrocket out of nowhere. But sure, Destro is the real culprit here.

Not out of nowhere. Its for the reason I explained before.

Let my ask you, what is you goal here? Destro is currently dominating the RVR-Lakes apart from some NA-Nights.
Now you also want to dominate Forts?
Or do you really think your suggestions helps the server to get more balanced?

My impression is you only want more Order to kill. Or an guaranteed Fort win. But please explain to me how your idea helps the server. Maybe I misunderstood it.

If you want to deny that, you are delusional. Simple as that.

Is there a reason to attack me? Please keep your arguments objective.