Dual Archetypes Damage

[Panel]

Ok the game has dual archetypes - mdps/heals, magic rdps/heals, melee/phys rdps etc. My question is should or should not these charcters be able to out dps or even go close to the dps of pure dps archetypes. Should or shouldnt for eg a WP/DOK be able to out melee a pure melee dps archetype. Should or shouldnt an AM/Shaman be able to put out numbers the same or bigger than a pure magic user. For that matter should or shouldnt any dual archetype be able to out dps any pure dps archetype. The melee/healer and magic rdps/healer will reply of course they do, as they need to do big dps as their heals are dependent on it. Well thats easy fixed - cut the dmg in half and double the healing it does. We have a situation now where these dual archetypes are doing more damage to pure melee at melee range than melee can do to them. Dots are problematic in that for one GCD you get 3 ticks on the average dot type - 3 damage strikes from melee takes 3 x GCD. For 3 GCD dot users get 9 damge hits. Not saying that pure melee have to dps kings but they along with other pure dps archetypes should always do more of their respective damage type than dual archetypes do.

[vanbuinen77]

Sounds good.

[Endari]

It's simply not true the dps-healers do the same dps as the pure dps classes and it's not even really close, what its 80% at best? Want to counter a melee dps-healer? some parry or dodge or block or toughness or armor or simply getting out of 5ft range and they die.

It is much harder to counter a ranged dps-healer solo but a well timed kd or interrupt helps or silence or break line of sight or absorb or just bring friends.

Dps-healers give up a lot of utility for 80% dps compared to a real dps class. My dps WP runs 2 tactics that reduce healing by 40%, so hot's are worthless, group heal is worthless, single target heal is worthless and the melee heal in 2h spec is in a really bad state right now as its so easily interrupted . It has no knockdown or disarm that a pure dps has, it has no gap closer that a pure dps has.

Ranged dps-healers are very strong solo and with the constant nurfing of the while lion the shaman has little to fear solo plus they have a hybrid setup that gives way to much sustain but they hit like wet noodle in that spec and if you have some support you can kill them. The am have dot's for days but little burst compared to say the bw/sorc, again solo you will have a hard time against them but they don't have all the run speed tools the shaman has so you can catch them and there is no hybrid setup to deal with so they can die. Both are much better off healers than 2h WP/dual wield DoK but that is not saying much as the sm/bo can push out the same heals, though the chance at an instant rez is very nice.

I do believe am/shm are over-tuned in solo but as the dev's constantly remind us this is not a solo game so take that for what you will.

[Bozzax]

I’ve played hybrid spec more thẹn most. An am/ shaman that “hybrid dps” outputs at par with dps oriented tanks or a rly bad dps (typically the worst in a sc). Your healing output is average to low (compared to pure healing). If you use the defensive tactics your healing is weak and personally I haven’t managed to find a build that has room for more then one defensive tactic. AM walk between worlds imho is by far the strongest tactic of all defensive tactics for am/shmy

These are facts or just me being unable to pull it off

If you slot dps tactics you are an average dps (mid pack) with less healing then the tanks in your group. Again this is how it actually perform

1v1 you struggle vs ppl that understand how to burst you and can kill regen tanks. I guess this is where the most hate comes from since dps tanks typically believe they should be stronger. (Badly geared ppl loose ofc like they should or dps that lack burst cc)

Ps. Ppl that complain really should try out more none meta classes 1vX

[akisnaakkeli]

I dont know who asked 184hp regen chest + 80hp regen pocket but that is CLEARLY change for the Solo even though RoR maintains that 0 changes are made based on anything solo.

Shield Dok/Wp can heal easily more than actual backline healers. It requires team build around you but its possible (Scenarios, maybe in RvR as well with 9 cap) and having block just does not sit well with me, but anyways.

There is a reason why ONLY Dps healer specs have Aoe Healdebuffs and Meleehealers have shatter/purge. It is because they cant do Dps lvl of dmg but they can get 70-80% of true dps dmg and aoe HD+Divineassault/Rendsoul healing 10% to 100% and having Purge makes up for lack of the dmg, espesially 50% Aoe HD. But Rs/da is wrecked making dps wp/dok USELESS because we dont have ap based melee grp heal that gives resourses back, but shield spec gets that? Thanks

30% aoe hd is given back to Rp/Zealot but not Dok? They def should give it back to Dok and to 2h dps wp as well, and make it 50%

[ScreenFofoBan]

i dont know where u get the info that hybrid dps/heal are doing more dmg than pure dps, ive not tryed all healer as dps but i can garantee u the one i tried barely deal as much dmg in ST as my pure dps at equal gear, and when it come to AOE its not even comparable regarding how bad hybrid are a it.
Calling for a general dmg nerf on them? well first it would be pretty unfair for dps runi/zealot, i personally dont think these spec are overperforming at all, its look more like the opposite, nerfing them is just unfair.
Then for DPS WP/DOK, well they are melee so its already a pretty big inconvenient, there ST dmg are ok and have good group utility but again it required lot of gear investment and even then, at equal gear, regarding pure ST dmg output they obviously get outdmged by most pure DPS like ST SW/SH sorc/BW and many more (all ?), and they also lack the basic MDPS tools like a sprint.
And of course, the legendary DPS AM/sham, or as i like to called them, the newbie stomper, well its term of pure dmg output the AM is above all other healer with extra dot and just natural better dmg on them compared to sham, but still they are almost non existent in bigger scale because the AOE capacity is pretty bad (compared to what most pure DPS have access) and the lack of mobility option on AM justify his bigger dmg compared to sham, in other terms, what have DPS AM besides good ST dmg ? not much honestly, sham have less dps but more mobility.
Contrary to what u seems to say, having a DPS based on DOT is far for being always an advantage in this big direct dmg impact meta we have, its not rare to see one of ur 3 dot getting dirsupt and another getting cleansed which result in 3 gcd to put 1 dot, and its just start ticking so 3 gdc for barely 300-500 dmg and u will probably keep getting cleansed/disrupt in a group play setup with tank holding the line and healer ready to cleanse when a SW can inflict 3k+ direct dmg with a single GCD, same with SH and pretty much most DPS with non dot mainly based dmg have more efficient and direct way of dmging than hybrid. actually this dot dmg gameplay only shine in 1v1, very small scale or vs very newbie player that chase alone(the newbie stomper as i said)

[tatupetinati2004]

Ok the game has dual archetypes - mdps/heals, magic rdps/heals, melee/phys rdps etc. My question is should or should not these charcters be able to out dps or even go close to the dps of pure dps archetypes. Should or shouldnt for eg a WP/DOK be able to out melee a pure melee dps archetype. Should or shouldnt an AM/Shaman be able to put out numbers the same or bigger than a pure magic user. For that matter should or shouldnt any dual archetype be able to out dps any pure dps archetype. The melee/healer and magic rdps/healer will reply of course they do, as they need to do big dps as their heals are dependent on it. Well thats easy fixed - cut the dmg in half and double the healing it does. We have a situation now where these dual archetypes are doing more damage to pure melee at melee range than melee can do to them. Dots are problematic in that for one GCD you get 3 ticks on the average dot type - 3 damage strikes from melee takes 3 x GCD. For 3 GCD dot users get 9 damge hits. Not saying that pure melee have to dps kings but they along with other pure dps archetypes should always do more of their respective damage type than dual archetypes do.

i disagree, they already have less damage than a normal dps, especially in aoe. WP/DoK channeling is broke and WP has no vaible way to reach a ranged dps in lake or in a 1v1. And making all their dmg physical would kill the class completly.

[salazarn]

I’ve played hybrid spec more thẹn most. An am/ shaman that “hybrid dps” outputs at par with dps oriented tanks or a rly bad dps (typically the worst in a sc). Your healing output is average to low (compared to pure healing). If you use the defensive tactics your healing is weak and personally I haven’t managed to find a build that has room for more then one defensive tactic. AM walk between worlds imho is by far the strongest tactic of all defensive tactics for am/shmy

These are facts or just me being unable to pull it off

If you slot dps tactics you are an average dps (mid pack) with less healing then the tanks in your group. Again this is how it actually perform

1v1 you struggle vs ppl that understand how to burst you and can kill regen tanks. I guess this is where the most hate comes from since dps tanks typically believe they should be stronger. (Badly geared ppl loose ofc like they should or dps that lack burst cc)

Ps. Ppl that complain really should try out more none meta classes 1vX

I would say dps sham does more than a tank. More importantly it can do dmg while kiting at 100ft. You're never safe from sham dots. They can also support in ways another dps can't and influence fights with heals.

Also how is walk between worlds better than passive 25% dmg reduction no one else ingame has. DPS am strength is like 20% more life tap and an extra dot.

[akisnaakkeli]

Dps Shammy/Am deal much more dmg than Tank does. Id say 2h tank and dps zealot/rp is closer to tank. Dps wp/dok are somewhere in between, if the channel would be fixed. Omegus Found dps wp video from live where there is no cone of fire checks and doesnt cancel even when your back is on enemy.

RoR.builders - Archmage Because Il take that/Balance essence cant be used whilst moving(they should change this imo,fodg as well) arching power is the only thing keeping Am alive really.

With this spec Path of Asyruan skills have 25% Block/Disrupt Strikethrough, and 3 of the 4 dots are on that path so every Asyryan skill is frequently used. The Rest get 10% From tactic and 10% From Intelligence.

Wl/Sm can do this even to higher degree.

[Bozzax]

I’ve played hybrid spec more thẹn most. An am/ shaman that “hybrid dps” outputs at par with dps oriented tanks or a rly bad dps (typically the worst in a sc). Your healing output is average to low (compared to pure healing). If you use the defensive tactics your healing is weak and personally I haven’t managed to find a build that has room for more then one defensive tactic. AM walk between worlds imho is by far the strongest tactic of all defensive tactics for am/shmy

These are facts or just me being unable to pull it off

If you slot dps tactics you are an average dps (mid pack) with less healing then the tanks in your group. Again this is how it actually perform

1v1 you struggle vs ppl that understand how to burst you and can kill regen tanks. I guess this is where the most hate comes from since dps tanks typically believe they should be stronger. (Badly geared ppl loose ofc like they should or dps that lack burst cc)

Ps. Ppl that complain really should try out more none meta classes 1vX

I would say dps sham does more than a tank. More importantly it can do dmg while kiting at 100ft. You're never safe from sham dots. They can also support in ways another dps can't and influence fights with heals.

Also how is walk between worlds better than passive 25% dmg reduction no one else ingame has. DPS am strength is like 20% more life tap and an extra dot.

You didn’t even read

Maybe if you play the classes you would figure out why