Killboard - One class, only one, coming soon

[what63]

Yesterday played my dps dok in evening. Went few scenarios. The quality of shitshow destro pug performed there is unbelievable. Including: que solo in **** gear versus order prems in sov, not using pots, ataking snb tanks, feed like no tommorow without surrender. Basically everyone on order got ton of kills just shooting this inting bots. And now same people sit here and whine about SW being OP, ranged meta bullshit, and that they cant play the game game cos they cant dominate with one button, and now class that was spamed by order for years in NERFED spec become sudently op. Whats game really need is MMR in sc, so normal people can play ws normal people, and spoiled MTV girls sit in their own hell que yelling and acusing each other in being broken and op. If people just switch off brain and rush toward rdps without healers, respaun, do same 10 times, and then go here to "analysis" of killboard maybe they shouldnt play pvp games.

Nah you're mising it. There simply wasn't a point in voicing any concerns when things were "going well". Now that **** is going down the drain for real, there may be a sliver of hope for this to be fixed along with RvR etc. in general.

SW was indeed spammed for years, and was mostly fine, even long before it got MASSIVE damage buffs accross the board. That doesn't mean it didn't need some of the buffs. And none of the above excludes the possibility of some of the buffs having gone way too far.

Exact same goes for SH, multiple melee classes, Shammy/AM, really on the whole just a massive chunk of stuff that was added or removed without sufficient logic, math or indeed anything besides anecdotes.

[Sever1n]

Nah im not missing it. Only buff SW had is changing ranked ring. He Who Must Not Be Named patch included such goodies for cout spec: ruined interactions with add efects to skills from VoN, pariable pin, completely ruined stun nerfed to 2 sec 75ft that need von amd waste of snare, fell became from spirit to phys, shadow sting and fester lost undef part from VoN, bha lost staking. There wasnt any MASSIVE BUFFS. Everybody is welcome to create SW, play like you play on destro pug, and see how "OP" it is. RDPS meta vibe is nothing then colective madness thats boiled by one particular streamer.

[Speedyluck]

one reason ranged became so dominating is becos of a series of unnecessary chop/SL nerfs...

[what63]

Nah im not missing it. Only buff SW had is changing ranked ring. He Who Must Not Be Named patch included such goodies for cout spec: ruined interactions with add efects to skills from VoN, pariable pin, completely ruined stun nerfed to 2 sec 75ft that need von amd waste of snare, fell became from spirit to phys, shadow sting and fester lost undef part from VoN, bha lost staking. There wasnt any MASSIVE BUFFS. Everybody is welcome to create SW, play like you play on destro pug, and see how "OP" it is. RDPS meta vibe is nothing then colective madness thats boiled by one particular streamer.

Brother, ability values were increased. Crit damage was increased. Cast times were reduced. AP usage went down for certain stuff. Everything else is just fluff. If the actual NUMBERS hadn't gone up, I'd be right there with you, but alas, they did go up.

one reason ranged became so dominating is becos of a series of unnecessary chop/SL nerfs...

Nope, has nothing to do with it.

[Ashoris]

we literally had posts some week ago that stated rdps Meta on destru > rdps meta on order by probably one of the best grps on this server while they were playing destru a lot

Now i read that order rdps meta is OP ?
have i missed GrpSpeed, SpeedProcs, a reliable Pull and a stacking morale Resist/armor debuff on Order side ?

or could it be that some classes overperform in casualplay while drop off significant as soon as the enemy knows what to do ?

[what63]

we literally had posts some week ago that stated rdps Meta on destru > rdps meta on order by probably one of the best grps on this server while they were playing destru a lot

Now i read that order rdps meta is OP ?
have i missed GrpSpeed, SpeedProcs, a reliable Pull and a stacking morale Resist/armor debuff on Order side ?

or could it be that some classes overperform in casualplay while drop off significant as soon as the enemy knows what to do ?

The latter, definitely. And yes, it does matter. Really. If you cannot buff something to 6v6/general 6man+ viability without ruining casual play/arbitrary rvr, you need to rething your strategy.

[Lareal]

Where to buy this foilhats?

Predictable. Number 1 tactic of conspiracists: insinuate that the other side are spreading conspiracy theories.

Nope, it isn't. Making up facts instead is one of the measurements for conspiracy theories.

But I am able to learn, could you give any example for somebody who created a second account to promote an anti destro agenda?

It's good that you keep an open mind. First, as I said in my original post, 'I suspect' that some of the people posting in the nerf RSH threads were the same people. Do I have proof? Of course not, or I would not have said 'suspect'. As to why I suspect that, again, as I stated in my first post: the nerf RSH campaign seemed way too coordinated. To expand on that, I will add that the campaign came out of the blue, without any major changes to the RSH for a long period before it started. Second, I noticed quite a few similar patterns in the posts that seemed suspicious. Please feel free to go back and look at the nerf RSH threads for the last 4-5 months and give me your impressions, and please, if you have it, provide proof that those folks are not posting under different names. It was obvious it was coming, especially since RSHs tend to be one of the quietest classes in the forums. Usually we are just happy to play a class we love. In hindsight that seems to have been a mistake. Obviously the loudest voices in the forums are the ones that the devs hear the most, and unfortunately react to.

As I said in another post, as soon as I saw the nerf RSH campaign starting, I knew a RSH nerf was coming because I had seen the pattern with other classes.

[Ashoris]

Predictable. Number 1 tactic of conspiracists: insinuate that the other side are spreading conspiracy theories.

Nope, it isn't. Making up facts instead is one of the measurements for conspiracy theories.

But I am able to learn, could you give any example for somebody who created a second account to promote an anti destro agenda?

It's good that you keep an open mind. First, as I said in my original post, 'I suspect' that some of the people posting in the nerf RSH threads were the same people. Do I have proof? Of course not, or I would not have said 'suspect'. As to why I suspect that, again, as I stated in my first post: the nerf RSH campaign seemed way too coordinated. To expand on that, I will add that the campaign came out of the blue, without any major changes to the RSH for a long period before it started. Second, I noticed quite a few similar patterns in the posts that seemed suspicious. Please feel free to go back and look at the nerf RSH threads for the last 4-5 months and give me your impressions, and please, if you have it, provide proof that those folks are not posting under different names. It was obvious it was coming, especially since RSHs tend to be one of the quietest classes in the forums. Usually we are just happy to play a class we love. In hindsight that seems to have been a mistake. Obviously the loudest voices in the forums are the ones that the devs hear the most, and unfortunately react to.

As I said in another post, as soon as I saw the nerf RSH campaign starting, I knew a RSH nerf was coming because I had seen the pattern with other classes.

Not to derail too much but you know that what you are doing is number 1 conspiracy crafting ? Assuming, or suggesting something but not putting the work in to prove it but instead asking everyone else to disprove it.


but to requote another topic ....

sh and sw need to be toned down asap.

I can see that SHs are dominating, SWs not so much. The event scenarios are perfect for ranged classes.

Code: Select all

T4 Event SCs - career kill damage of total damage (percentage):
1.SQUIG_HERDER: 56.34
2.WITCH_ELF: 46.25
3.SHADOW_WARRIOR: 36.57

SHs kill damage to total damage is 20% higher than SWs. SWs are still in the normal range of 26-36%. If it were a less open field scenario they would be much lower.

viewtopic.php?t=53579

[Ashoris]

Nope, it isn't. Making up facts instead is one of the measurements for conspiracy theories.

But I am able to learn, could you give any example for somebody who created a second account to promote an anti destro agenda?

It's good that you keep an open mind. First, as I said in my original post, 'I suspect' that some of the people posting in the nerf RSH threads were the same people. Do I have proof? Of course not, or I would not have said 'suspect'. As to why I suspect that, again, as I stated in my first post: the nerf RSH campaign seemed way too coordinated. To expand on that, I will add that the campaign came out of the blue, without any major changes to the RSH for a long period before it started. Second, I noticed quite a few similar patterns in the posts that seemed suspicious. Please feel free to go back and look at the nerf RSH threads for the last 4-5 months and give me your impressions, and please, if you have it, provide proof that those folks are not posting under different names. It was obvious it was coming, especially since RSHs tend to be one of the quietest classes in the forums. Usually we are just happy to play a class we love. In hindsight that seems to have been a mistake. Obviously the loudest voices in the forums are the ones that the devs hear the most, and unfortunately react to.

As I said in another post, as soon as I saw the nerf RSH campaign starting, I knew a RSH nerf was coming because I had seen the pattern with other classes.

Not to derail too much but you know that what you are doing is number 1 conspiracy crafting ? Assuming, or suggesting something but not putting the work in to prove it but instead asking everyone else to disprove it.


but to requote another topic ....

sh and sw need to be toned down asap.

I can see that SHs are dominating, SWs not so much. The event scenarios are perfect for ranged classes.

Code: Select all

T4 Event SCs - career kill damage of total damage (percentage):
1.SQUIG_HERDER: 56.34
2.WITCH_ELF: 46.25
3.SHADOW_WARRIOR: 36.57

SHs kill damage to total damage is 20% higher than SWs. SWs are still in the normal range of 26-36%. If it were a less open field scenario they would be much lower.

viewtopic.php?t=53579

just an example were someone put the work in (i dont agree with all of his assumptions but thats a different topic).
In this thread you can also find this:

This leads to another significant issue: the balance between factions. You cannot play the same setup on Order with the same efficiency as on Destruction due to differences in abilities and morales (specifically Talon for ranged comps) and especially covenants being inherently different. For instance, a DoK's group having the ability to snare on hit is very powerful against ranged groups that need to kite (and still absolutely broken in damage numbers and the snaring component against any setup). As you can see, there are just way too many external factors why a Sorc/Squig setup is a better ranged assist group than BW/SW without even looking closer into the class balance of those classes (and yes squig might be overtuned atm, but that is also due to changes made to Autoattacks and heavily also the externa factors I named). Hence, you will find them in top positions in the statistics.

[Lareal]

Was gonna list all the Order abilities that destro dont have but meh - and what has aoe punts got to do with the SW.
[/quote]

din't want to forestall here, but whats about, detaunt & speedproc taktik, extra damage from pet, still accessible speed ability without the downside of switching stances, guard from pet, range tactic, selfheal, aoe punt
[/quote]

I have addresses some of this in other posts, but I'll hit the points again here, but before I do I need to get a key point across: for both SW and RSH, the ONLY reliable defense is a speed ability. Take it away and we are easy to get in melee range. Do that and we die 90% of the time. We have no armor, toughness at 50 if your run WS tactic (which most I have seen do}, and detaunt will not let you live through DPS from MDPS or even a tank (cheers Gilgam). Please understand this key point, if we lose speed, we die. Take away charge from a tank and they have massive armor and toughness. Most MDPS have medium armor. WE/WH have every get away trick in the game. Not so RSH. Speed or die, simple. Also, keep in mind that RSH has no snare break other than an M2 that if you are in melee range, you won't live to see.

Detaunt and speed tactics
These are both great, no question but a little context is needed. First, both rely on a proc, and are hence not to be counted upon. Second, very few of us run both. I played with it for a while, but my DPS was crap. Often I don't run either, and go instead for a pure dps build in and attempt to kill the enemy before they kill me.

extra damage from pet
Pet damage depends on which pet you are running, Spikey has good damage, others much less, with basic squig have absolutely horrible dps. But yes, our pets do damage, big deal, so do WL pets. For SWs, they get stackable DOTs and higher burst damage instead of pets.

still accessible speed ability without the downside of switching stances
Yes, we now have a 13 point ability, so accessible at 28 if you skip Rotten Arrer, Red Tipped Arrer and +15ft tactic. So no reliable speed buff till then, only a proc based tactic. Meanwhile, SW gets a permanent speed buff through a 4 point tactic. Yes, you have to switch stances to get the buff, but stances are on a 5 sec CD, and the tactic buff last 5 sec, so...

guard from pet
This one I am really tired of hearing about. The fact is that RSHs rarely run this pet because its DPS sucks balls. It works for PVE, or if food for 'Taste like chicken' ability, but other than that I, at least, rarely use it. Spikey or gas squig are the primary RSH pets for good reason.

range tactic
+15 feet for only quick shootin abilities. This takes most to 80 feet, not exactly game breaking, and pretty close to the range of most MDPS and tanks ranged abilities.

Selfheal
I assume you are talking about 'tastes like chicken' which gives a 10 second 160 wds buff by killing your squig, with next squig instacast. Seems decent, but almost never saves me, its barely 1-2 hits from a tank, plus I lose dps from not having my squig for a period, and not being able to summon the same squig due to cd. Also, the unwritten secret is that we have to stop to summon the 'instacast' squig. See my first point above, i.e. lose speed and die.

Self-punt
This ability is a joke. It is short range so you are still in range to WH finishers or many MDPS attacks. It fail ridiculously often, and to use it you have to be in melee range. Again refer to the start of this post to see what that means. I will say that it seems to work well in TM while fighting next to a cliff to punt yourself to the bottom with no damage. Meanwhile, WE/WH get a self-punt as well but with a friggin stagger! Please trade me.

So, I hope I made my point that RSH only reliable defense is speed. And that in the form of an ability, not a proc.

The main issue I saw in the various nerf RSH threads was that it was quite obvious the poster chased the RSH. Don't chase the kiter, its stupid. Get behind terrain, get away and ambush the RSH later. Ulitimatum is good at this. He routinely comes from unexpected directions, and if I catch him at a distance, he tries to get away then comes at me later. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but that's part of the game.