[black orc]WTF with the swordmaster and black orc?(rant)

[Nehetzu95]

I was browsing the career builder for the black orc when I chose to check the swordmaster since they're their mirror on order and wtf, they get not only a leap as a morale 2 but also deal a ton of spirit damage which entirely ignores armor, the only mobility tool the BO gets outside of flee is a tactic for wez bigger, both being deep into the path of the toughest, meaning they are unusable going 2h
Am not asking for the SM to be nerfed, but the black orc deserves a few buffs, I mean seriously, we can't even hit parry cap for gork/work's sake

[Uchoo]

What Parry cap?

[Culexus]

I was browsing the career builder for the black orc when I chose to check the swordmaster since they're their mirror on order and wtf, they get not only a leap as a morale 2 but also deal a ton of spirit damage which entirely ignores armor, the only mobility tool the BO gets outside of flee is a tactic for wez bigger, both being deep into the path of the toughest, meaning they are unusable going 2h
Am not asking for the SM to be nerfed, but the black orc deserves a few buffs, I mean seriously, we can't even hit parry cap for gork/work's sake

For your own sanity, don't look at Chop Fasta! then Sapping Strike...

2h BO is probably the worst off-spec build in the game right now. I could be wrong, but I can't think of another class, and certainly no other tank, that loses so much of its kit without getting anything in return as the 2h BO. If you just want to smack stuff with a big axe for the lols it's fine, but if you want to bring something to your group, you have to go SnB as everything we do well is tied to it. Even if you run high into the Boss tree for 2h, you'd be better off doing the same with SnB as it brings so much more to the table.

[Culexus]

What Parry cap?

This has to have been written somewhere at some point as many people think this. I thought the same thing myself for the longest time.

I believe it was that there was a hard cap to parry/block, 30% parry and 50% block, and that anything over that was to help against strike-through. I'm not sure if this was something that used to be in place or just bad info that has been passed down that people believe as there's no written info on any of this outside of your guide, so players trust what they're told. Kind of the same as WS used to work or how defense stats work now, with hidden values that players wouldn't know unless they get good sources of info.

[Panzer80]

Don't complain about mirrors. This game does not do exact mirrors and thank Sigmar for that. Wanting the same abilities on each side is bOriNg! caved_in_forhead.jpeg

If you want a SM go play one. Blorc recently got buffed significantly after being gimp for 5+ years. Block is your SM mirror. You won't out do their spirit damage and you won't beat their morals head-to-head. Learing alternative niche builds is your best bet.

[Culexus]

Don't complain about mirrors. This game does not do exact mirrors and thank Sigmar for that. Wanting the same abilities on each side is bOriNg! caved_in_forhead.jpeg

If you want a SM go play one. Blorc recently got buffed significantly after being gimp for 5+ years. Block is your SM mirror. You won't out do their spirit damage and you won't beat their morals head-to-head. Learing alternative niche builds is your best bet.

I don't think the OP is asking for the exact abilities of the SM, but rather for the mirrors to be closer together in terms of what they bring to the table. I don't think anyone is asking for BO to get magic damage, but rather something to bring the damage output of the classes closer together so they more closely mirror each other. If not that, something else such as buffs/debuffs the SM doesn't have access to that could make up for the lower damage.

SnB BO/SM work as mirrors that bring both mirrored and unique tools to the table that make them balanced against each other in terms of group viability while remaining individual. 2h BO/SM should be the same.

[geezereur]

Black Orc does more damage to low and medium armor classes. You can also use double armor debuff skill+moral.

[Nehetzu95]

I was browsing the career builder for the black orc when I chose to check the swordmaster since they're their mirror on order and wtf, they get not only a leap as a morale 2 but also deal a ton of spirit damage which entirely ignores armor, the only mobility tool the BO gets outside of flee is a tactic for wez bigger, both being deep into the path of the toughest, meaning they are unusable going 2h
Am not asking for the SM to be nerfed, but the black orc deserves a few buffs, I mean seriously, we can't even hit parry cap for gork/work's sake

For your own sanity, don't look at Chop Fasta! then Sapping Strike...

2h BO is probably the worst off-spec build in the game right now. I could be wrong, but I can't think of another class, and certainly no other tank, that loses so much of its kit without getting anything in return as the 2h BO. If you just want to smack stuff with a big axe for the lols it's fine, but if you want to bring something to your group, you have to go SnB as everything we do well is tied to it. Even if you run high into the Boss tree for 2h, you'd be better off doing the same with SnB as it brings so much more to the table.

good god, what is this balance, this kind of stuff makes me not even want to play my black orc, it's like they hate the class or something

[Farrul]

I don't think the OP is asking for the exact abilities of the SM, but rather for the mirrors to be closer together in terms of what they bring to the table. I don't think anyone is asking for BO to get magic damage, but rather something to bring the damage output of the classes closer together so they more closely mirror each other. If not that, something else such as buffs/debuffs the SM doesn't have access to that could make up for the lower damage.

SnB BO/SM work as mirrors that bring both mirrored and unique tools to the table that make them balanced against each other in terms of group viability while remaining individual. 2h BO/SM should be the same.

In comparison to the Swordmaster it doesn't look good for 2H BO, BO has a bit more passive tankiness than SM through the 160 wounds racial tactic and Da greenest is something i wish SM had ( i think that's the one, reactive resistance buff).

But overall BO was nerfed way too much in 2H. From an Order perspective 2H BO is the first target every Order ranged dps will go for, they're still huge in Sov Shoulder ( is it?) so a very obvious target to focus down but does not have the block channel to survive anything unlike their SnB brethren, at least previouslt with YOU WOT 2H BO could take a beating.

it's kinda sad what they did to it, also IB 2H is another sad story. These two are way better as SnB.


P.S. As for damage BO still will surpass SM vs low armor targets, but overall yeah isn't on par since magic damage is king in this game(especially since SM puts a 350 resist malus on the target and they melt everything and helps the legions of dps AM do the same)

[Culexus]

Black Orc does more damage to low and medium armor classes. You can also use double armor debuff skill+moral.

SnB BO can also do a double armour debuff. If you're building a group for this purpose, you take a BG as it can do the same but better and still has access all its amazing abilites.

2h BO can slap hard even against Heavy armour with BiS. 60% armour penetration+armour debuff+M1 is going to leave even IB with little phys resist.

The problem is, to do any decent dps requires tactics, and to have any defense requires tactics, and our punt requires a tactic. So if we do go full dps spec, we're so squishy we can't tank any focus damage, or if we go defensive spec, we're not doing any dps so may as well go SnB and have way more defense and get access to all the awesome the SnB abilites.

good god, what is this balance, this kind of stuff makes me not even want to play my black orc, it's like they hate the class or something

They don't hate any class. I'm sure the team wants every class to be great in every spec and they are slowly working their way towards doing that with the balance patches

2H BO being lackluster isn't exactly a new observation, and I'm sure the team are aware of it and will look at it as balance patches continue to release. They may not know why it's lackluster if they have no personal experience with the class, so that's on us as a community to provide feedback for the team to do with what they will.

It's worth pointing out that as Panzer80 said, BO has received a lot of buffs in the balance patches. SnB BO was nothing but a guard bot before the patches and by far the worst tank in the game. Since the patches, SnB BO has become one of the best tanks in the game. My point being that although 2h may suck now, there's a good chance it'll get looked at in the future. In the meantime, it's still a fun spec to play at a casual level. Just join discordant where you can crack some skulls with the rest of the headless chickens.

As for SM, remember one thing. Even though they may be better than us as 2h, they have to do all that they do as an Elf in a dress. We get to krump as a heavy armour wearing, Waaagh! shouting, big axe swinging, Black Ork!