New armor sets/weapons

[leftayparxoun]

In first case realistically you suggesting trading 34 stat of dmg for 32 toughness (disr strikethrough will give 3% vs anyone twinking disr, or nothing at all vs wh with Shroud up). Here is the funny thing, as someone who actually roams, I will rather kill a bit faster before more order show up.

Let me first ask then, why are you not softcapping your Intelligence with talismans and instead have all of them on Toughness?
414 INT from gear + 221 base + 160 from Endless Knowledge tactic = 795
even if you put 34 RR points in INT and use the +100 INT pot that would only give you: 120+100 = 220 extra INT
Meaning that at best you can reach 1015 INT which even with an event slot item wont really go above 1030.
Why aren't you using at least 1 INT tali to reach the softcap?

What you are also missing here is that your Pet does not inherit your Magic Power, only your Intelligence. So for example in build 1: while you are losing 54 Magic Power and gaining 20 INT, your pet is gaining 20 INT (for Pink Horror) without losing anything. I'd have to go into rotation specifics to prove it, but it should offset the damage loss by a bit.

Of course, if you actually want to and maximize your damage, then your current build would have an additional 54 Magic Power once you softcapt INT with talismans and would therefore be better. Let's talk defences now.

No idea how did you got the idea that armor and especially reduced armor pen is devalued in toughness builds, when realistically you want both. Especially that with magus's armor self buff, which (intentionally) stacks with armor pot, magus can get a pretty decent armor value.

I think you'll agree with me that the most common mdps you'll be facing as a solo Magus is White Lions and Witch Hunters. Let's examine the impact of the redarpen% loss vs those classes:

You have currently 1066 armor from gear + 660 pot + 560 buff = 2286 armor and 4% redarpen from the 2 rings
And we are examining what would happen with 2339 armor and 2% or 0% redarpen

• For roaming White Lion we are looking at either offensive builds (5 Sov - 4 Tri with STR talis) or for Regen builds. At worst, they will have 25% arpen (for Regen builds) but they almost alway run with Armor debuff (Force Opportunity). At 9 points in that tree we are looking at an undefendable 1360 armor debuff.
  So, for the best case scenario for the magus with your build (vs Regen WLs):
  • 2286 + 4% redarpen debuffed by 1360 and 25% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2286-1360)/44*(1-0.25+0.04) = 83.37%
  • 2339 + 2% redarpen debuffed by 1360 and 25% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2339-1360)/44*(1-0.25+0.02) = 82.86%
  • 2339 debuffed by 1360 and 25% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2339-1360)/44*(1-0.25) = 83.31%
  So in both suggested builds you actually take slightly less physical dmg than in the original build from Regen WLs.
  What about offensive WLs?
  There you can expect them to have about 40-45% arpen at BIS. Let's go with the best use case for reduced arpen which is for 45% arpen:
  • 2286 + 4% redarpen debuffed by 1360 and 45% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2286-1360)/44*(1-0.45+0.04) = 87.58%
  • 2339 + 2% redarpen debuffed by 1360 and 45% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2339-1360)/44*(1-0.45+0.02) = 87.32%
  • 2339 debuffed by 1360 and 25% arpen
    Physical dmg taken = 1 - (2339-1360)/44*(1-0.45) = 87.76%
  As you can see again, in even under the best scenario for redarpen, the first suggested build has more physical dmg reduction% than what you are running, while the 2nd build is only 0.2% worse

Let's examine WHs now:

• For roaming WHs there is huge build variety. I'm going to examine 3 cases here:
  No additional armor pen (e.g. BAL + Punish the False build while Seal of Destruction is down)
  25% additional arpen (e.g. DG or BAL build with Blessed Blade up)
  50% additional arpen (e.g. Seal of Destruction up)
  I will be looking at something like 6 Sov - 3 Tri with STR talis (26.5% arpen) as suggested in Gersy's guide. I will also not consider the Burn armor debuff (since when it's active it devalues% redarpen even more):
  • No additional arpen
    • 2286 + 4% redarpen debuffed 26.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2286/44*(1-0.265+0.04) = 59.74%
    • 2339 + 2% redarpen debuffed by 26.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.265+0.02) = 59.86%
    • 2339 debuffed by 26.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.265) = 60.92%
    This means that you will take 0.2% more physical dmg with Build 1 and 2.0% more physical dmg with Build 2
  • 25% additional arpen
    • 2286 + 4% redarpen debuffed 51.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2286/44*(1-0.515+0.04) = 72.72%
    • 2339 + 2% redarpen debuffed by 51.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.515+0.02) = 73.15%
    • 2339 debuffed by 51.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.515) = 74.22%
    This means that you will take 0.6% more physical dmg with Build 1 and 2.1% more physical dmg with Build 2
  • 50% additional arpen
    • 2286 + 4% redarpen debuffed 76.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2286/44*(1-0.765+0.04) = 85.71%
    • 2339 + 2% redarpen debuffed by 76.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.765+0.02) = 86.44%
    • 2339 debuffed by 76.5% arpen
      Physical dmg taken = 1 - 2339/44*(1-0.765) = 87.51%
    This means that you will take 0.8% more physical dmg with Build 1 and 2.1% more physical dmg with Build 2
  In reality, for the first 15 seconds of an engagement you might find yourself further debuffed by Burn Armor and WHs might also be inclined to use Torment often in their rotation to completely ignore your armor.

All the above results are of course not factoring in the damage reduction from the added Toughness but only examine the physical dmg reduction modifier.
What I meant with my original statement was that reduced armor penetration becomes more valuable the more armor you have (compare WL vs WH calculations as an example). Since in this build you are stacking Toughness instead of armor, redarpen% isn't as valuable of a stat if you look at the calculations above. In most cases the suggested build 1 will be tankier than what you are running vs physical dps and in in some cases also build 2.

So no, both options which you are suggesting are worse than what I'm currently using. Even funnier, on top of getting worst stats I would also need to invest a lot of crests into buying the invader, compared to free sentinel, just to downgrade the gear.

Overall, unless you actually want to softcap your INT with talis, the minimal dmg loss combined with better defences across the board, 2 added Dodge% for SWs/Engis, 2 Morale/s and even 5% disrupt strikethrough to help with damage on healers are all a net positive in my book.
If we are now considering added value per war crest cost that's a completely different discussion. Back to the origins of this topic, you yourself claimed that the

last relevant gear set added was dominator

which I hopefully managed to demonstrate how it's not true.
We can disagree on the interpretation, but the numbers do not lie. Even if you don't value the upsides of these builds someone else might and that for sure makes it ''relevant''.

Now lets get to the really funny thing. If you were actually playing magus, like you claim, you would know that the Pilfer proc which Apocalypse has is mitigated by armor since abilities patch, which considering magus has no ws makes it worthless vs anything except cloth armor. Here what it actually looks like, just screenshotted it from my actual ingame magus:

I don't personally play Magus lately, nor did I ever claim that I do. I am basing all of this purely on the analysis of the stats.
I already knew that Pilfer is mitigated by armor (but not by Toughness) so in most cases you can expect a ~50 pilfer from Medium armor, ~95 from Light armor and ~37 from Heavy armor. The reasoning on why Demonrend proc is redundant due to Aegis remains the same and I'd personally take a 40-100 lifetap proc over it. The loss of INT, even with added dmg proc, can be a valid argument against this weapon, but I mentioned that already.

[Adelmar]

In first case realistically you suggesting trading 34 stat of dmg for 32 toughness (disr strikethrough will give 3% vs anyone twinking disr, or nothing at all vs wh with Shroud up). Here is the funny thing, as someone who actually roams, I will rather kill a bit faster before more order show up.

Let me first ask then, why are you not softcapping your Intelligence with talismans and instead have all of them on Toughness?

My guess would be because defensive builds are the easiest, most effective way to solo roam.

[Zxul]

In first case realistically you suggesting trading 34 stat of dmg for 32 toughness (disr strikethrough will give 3% vs anyone twinking disr, or nothing at all vs wh with Shroud up). Here is the funny thing, as someone who actually roams, I will rather kill a bit faster before more order show up.

Let me first ask then, why are you not softcapping your Intelligence with talismans and instead have all of them on Toughness?
414 INT from gear + 221 base + 160 from Endless Knowledge tactic = 795
even if you put 34 RR points in INT and use the +100 INT pot that would only give you: 120+100 = 220 extra INT
Meaning that at best you can reach 1015 INT which even with an event slot item wont really go above 1030.
Why aren't you using at least 1 INT tali to reach the softcap?

What you are also missing here is that your Pet does not inherit your Magic Power, only your Intelligence. So for example in build 1: while you are losing 54 Magic Power and gaining 20 INT, your pet is gaining 20 INT (for Pink Horror) without losing anything. I'd have to go into rotation specifics to prove it, but it should offset the damage loss by a bit.

Of course, if you actually want to and maximize your damage, then your current build would have an additional 54 Magic Power once you softcapt INT with talismans and would therefore be better. Let's talk defences now.

Because ideally I would soft cap both intel and toughness, but here in real world you don't have enough stats, so you have to make priorities.

Edit: To expand it a bit more, since you next question will likely be why toughness talis and not intel ones. etc. Between equal intel and toughness, I will usually choose toughness. Between bit more intel/MP than toughness, I chose the bit more stat option. Disrupt strikethrough isn't currently worth all that much, since most don't have disrupt, and those that do have it twink it in one way or the other so you realistically get 3% at most, or nothing at all (wh with Shroud). Also, morale is most likely m1 snare- which you will get anyway by the time when you need it.

As for dmg from pet, it is a small % of magus's dmg, multiply it by 20 intel and you get pretty much nothing.

No idea how did you got the idea that armor and especially reduced armor pen is devalued in toughness builds, when realistically you want both. Especially that with magus's armor self buff, which (intentionally) stacks with armor pot, magus can get a pretty decent armor value.

GIANT WALL OF TEXT

Now back to real world. First build, as I mentioned, more dmg. Second build, there is the regen which negates dmg. And, nicely enough, regen also works vs nonphysical dmg dealers, like say ams, since for some reason while roaming you can't choose who exactly you will run into.

So no, both options which you are suggesting are worse than what I'm currently using. Even funnier, on top of getting worst stats I would also need to invest a lot of crests into buying the invader, compared to free sentinel, just to downgrade the gear.

Overall, unless you actually want to softcap your INT with talis, the minimal dmg loss combined with better defences across the board, 2 added Dodge% for SWs/Engis, 2 Morale/s and even 5% disrupt strikethrough to help with damage on healers are all a net positive in my book.
If we are now considering added value per war crest cost that's a completely different discussion. Back to the origins of this topic, you yourself claimed that the

last relevant gear set added was dominator

which I hopefully managed to demonstrate how it's not true.
We can disagree on the interpretation, but the numbers do not lie. Even if you don't value the upsides of these builds someone else might and that for sure makes it ''relevant''.

And as I said above, in real world both options which you suggested are worse than what I'm using currently.

As I said, real world is different than theoretical calculations in ideal circumstances, which is what you do. You don't have a wl in xy set with xz% armor pen to deal with- you have an am dot or two on you, wl to deal with, and that sw over there which is currently trying to kite the WE, and which you want to finish off as fast as possible before more order pop up. While also living long enough to do that, despite the wl and the am.

Now lets get to the really funny thing. If you were actually playing magus, like you claim, you would know that the Pilfer proc which Apocalypse has is mitigated by armor since abilities patch, which considering magus has no ws makes it worthless vs anything except cloth armor. Here what it actually looks like, just screenshotted it from my actual ingame magus:

I don't personally play Magus lately, nor did I ever claim that I do. I am basing all of this purely on the analysis of the stats.
I already knew that Pilfer is mitigated by armor (but not by Toughness) so in most cases you can expect a ~50 pilfer from Medium armor, ~95 from Light armor and ~37 from Heavy armor. The reasoning on why Demonrend proc is redundant due to Aegis remains the same and I'd personally take a 40-100 lifetap proc over it. The loss of INT, even with added dmg proc, can be a valid argument against this weapon, but I mentioned that already.

And again, real world, fights last lot of time a bit more than 20 sec. Or, Aegis is on cd when the fight started- whs like to pop up in chains. Or, the opponent has absorbs, in which case lifetaps don't heal anything at all.

[leftayparxoun]

Because ideally I would soft cap both intel and toughness, but here in real world you don't have enough stats, so you have to make priorities.

Between equal intel and toughness, I will usually choose toughness. Between bit more intel/MP than toughness, I chose the bit more stat option..

Then the issue with build 1 is that you prefer 54 Magic Power over 20 INT and 32 Toughness. Meaning the the 2 stat point difference is not enough to justify the conversion of INT/MagicPower to TOU despite you preferring Toughness over Intelligence if it were 1:1?

As I said, real world is different than theoretical calculations in ideal circumstances, which is what you do. You don't have a wl in xy set with xz% armor pen to deal with- you have an am dot or two on you, wl to deal with, and that sw over there which is currently trying to kite the WE, and which you want to finish off as fast as possible before more order pop up. While also living long enough to do that, despite the wl and the am.

Even completely disregarding the extra 6 WOU, 2%dodge and 2 Morale/s, I hope I managed to showcase how the 53 armor gain led to similar if not better physical mitigation compared to the 2% redarpen loss from the Dominator Shoulders being swapped out in build 1. The second build being the one that leads to HP/4s loss can be ruled out understandably if you don't wanna go that far, but

And as I said above, in real world both options which you suggested are worse than what I'm using currently.

I completely undestand the need to minmax vs all kinds of opponents but I don't think that the first build is defensively worse vs any kind of opponent you'd be facing. More TOU vs all enemies, small extra dodge for rangers and finally equivalent physical mitigation vs physical classes. If curious, I'm willing to calculate things for any scenario you can come up with.

If the issue you have with it is that you effectively trade 34 Intelligence equivalents for 32 Toughness (instead of 34) and that's not worth it in your eyes compared to the other gains, I can begrudgingly understand that...

[Zxul]

Because ideally I would soft cap both intel and toughness, but here in real world you don't have enough stats, so you have to make priorities.

Between equal intel and toughness, I will usually choose toughness. Between bit more intel/MP than toughness, I chose the bit more stat option..

Then the issue with build 1 is that you prefer 54 Magic Power over 20 INT and 32 Toughness. Meaning the the 2 stat point difference is not enough to justify the conversion of INT/MagicPower to TOU despite you preferring Toughness over Intelligence if it were 1:1?

It is simple. You do need 800 or so toughness at least for toughness build to start working. Once there, you need to prioritize things, so bigger number > smaller number.

As I said, real world is different than theoretical calculations in ideal circumstances, which is what you do. You don't have a wl in xy set with xz% armor pen to deal with- you have an am dot or two on you, wl to deal with, and that sw over there which is currently trying to kite the WE, and which you want to finish off as fast as possible before more order pop up. While also living long enough to do that, despite the wl and the am.

Even completely disregarding the extra 6 WOU, 2%dodge and 2 Morale/s, I hope I managed to showcase how the 53 armor gain led to similar if not better physical mitigation compared to the 2% redarpen loss from the Dominator Shoulders being swapped out in build 1. The second build being the one that leads to HP/4s loss can be ruled out understandably if you don't wanna go that far, but

And as I said above, in real world both options which you suggested are worse than what I'm using currently.

I completely undestand the need to minmax vs all kinds of opponents but I don't think that the first build is defensively worse vs any kind of opponent you'd be facing. More TOU vs all enemies, small extra dodge for rangers and finally equivalent physical mitigation vs physical classes. If curious, I'm willing to calculate things for any scenario you can come up with.

If the issue you have with it is that you effectively trade 34 Intelligence equivalents for 32 Toughness (instead of 34) and that's not worth it in your eyes compared to the other gains, I can begrudgingly understand that...

It is very simple. I don't need morale/s- I'm mostly using m1 anyway, with m2 once in the while vs def tank, and these will be up anyway by the time I need them. 2%dodge is 1% vs any sw/engi with at least 100 ballistic (yep can add whatever dodge I have from init base, still same result vs any sw/engi above t1). So basically, what you call an upgrade is trading 34 worth of Intelligence equivalents for 32 Toughness- somehow I fail to see an upgrade.

Also, if you want yet another example, how real world in different compared to paper calcs. Currently Abso spam build is gaining popularity with whs again, and major component of its dmg (Bullets) ignores toughness altogether, while wh very much doesn't ignores the extra dmg from extra intel.

Here however is a much bigger issue. We ain't talking about t4 entry setup- we are talking about endgame BiS setup which toughness magus will be using at 80+. And even per your own suggestions, which don't actually improve anything, that BiS endgame setup will still include 3 dominator- which is suppose to be a t4 entry set which you are suppose to outgrow at rr50 or so.

[Sinisterror]

https://imgur.com/a/fIrJZfb We used to have SO MUCH MORE CHOICES