[AOE channels] WL and Mara

[Alubert]

Marauder test (I don't have WL but same mechanics)

Some numbers (no proc) max aoe tree:

Wrecking Ball (aoe channel) - 502 non crit
Demolishing (aoe instant) - 257 non crit

max brut tree:
Convulsive Slashing (ST channel) - 205 no crit

Generally I could end up with.
But I will write for those less familiar with it .

How is it possible that aoe channel beats stronger than ST channel?
This is exactly why we have the situation we have. The absolute domination of WL and mara.

Tooltip aoe channel must be reduced, and significantly so.
A ridiculous situation has arisen that it is more profitable to use it against only one opponent instead of another ST ability.

The solution is trivial: reduce tooltip aoe channel dmg

[Scragmuncher]

Because having bursts of aoe dmg is an intended game mechanic that pretty much every dps class can do.

[georgehabadasher]

Which leads to dumbed down blob fights instead of fights where you actually have to coordinate dps to kill things.

[leftayparxoun]

First of all, you didn't factor in the hit frequency. Unfortunately the database is bugged for Convulsive Slashing (CS) but, if the tooltip is to be believed, CS hits 6 times over 3 seconds = 2 hits/s.
In comparison, Wrecking Ball (WB) hits 4 times over 3 seconds = 1.33 hits/s.

To properly compare the two, you'd want to check a common metric such as damage/s. From your example:

• WB: 502*1.33 = 667 dps

• CS: 205*2 = 510 dps

Not that far off, especially considering that increased hitrate = more chances to proc procs (e.g. Sorc buff, CoC, etc.)

As for the actual reason you see those differences, I assume it's because you probably used the same build in both cases:

CS is a Single Target ability. The game design regarding ST, is designed in a way that requires you to invest in Strength and rely on armor debuffs in order to maximize your damage.
True to the norm for ST abilities, we see that CS has a Damage Bonus (DB) scaling of 0.50 for a total of 6×0.50=3.0 scaling over 3 seconds.
In comparison, WB has a 0.38 DB scaling for a total of 1.52 scaling over 3 seconds. Nearly half of that.

Using a normal AOE build with Weapon Skill talismans everywhere is not optimal for ST. You'll want a bigger focus on Strength and an armor debuff on your target (by either yourself or one of your allies) to see Convulsive Slashing at its full potential.

[tefnaht]

CS is a Single Target ability. The game design regarding ST, is designed in a way that requires you to invest in Strength and rely on armor debuffs in order to maximize your damage.
True to the norm for ST abilities, we see that CS has a Damage Bonus (DB) scaling of 0.50 for a total of 6×0.50=3.0 scaling over 3 seconds.
In comparison, WB has a 0.38 DB scaling for a total of 1.52 scaling over 3 seconds. Nearly half of that.

+ auto attack, for physic ST it's a good portion of damage. If check killboard for solo kills - 20-40% of damage is AA and it's also scales with main stat.

[Scragmuncher]

Which leads to dumbed down blob fights instead of fights where you actually have to coordinate dps to kill things.

Wut?

No, that's not what causes blob fight. What causes blob fights is there is no incentive to run as just 1 wb if you know there are stronger WB's out in the lakes that will kill you if you don't blob up. (Imo)

[georgehabadasher]

Wut?

No, that's not what causes blob fight. What causes blob fights is there is no incentive to run as just 1 wb if you know there are stronger WB's out in the lakes that will kill you if you don't blob up. (Imo)

Sorry, I should’ve worded that more clearly. AOE channels are what causes large scale fights to be boring, skill-less messes that are over in a few seconds. Not that they are the cause of blobbing itself. Blobbing is caused by the game’s poor incentivization and reward structures.

[Alubert]

Sorry, I admit my mistake.
aoe channel on construct: 314 (I read 502 dmg from dummy).
Still there are stronger hits and not in one but 24 opponents.

[agemennon675]

Because having bursts of aoe dmg is an intended game mechanic that pretty much every dps class can do.

Unfortunately not all dps classes have an aoe channel wish they did sp they can also be played comfortably in a warband setting but hey

[leftayparxoun]

Sorry, I admit my mistake.
aoe channel on construct: 314 (I read 502 dmg from dummy).
Still there are stronger hits and not in one but 24 opponents.

In the end this is mostly a problem about rates.
If the actual damage rate (after mitigations/avoidances) on a target is higher than their incoming heal rate, then they will eventually die.
AOE damage/pressure rates are in most cases lower than ST damage rates if examined on a target basis, but currently in orvr there is no need to care about ST damage in most cases:
The AOE damage rates are high enough that 8 x dps can in most cases overwhelm enemy targets through guard, challenge, avoidances, TOU/armor/resist mitigations, healing from the 2 party healers and crosshealing from the other 6, without having to use a single ST ability.

This is why Time To Kill (TTK) is very fast and why unless a warband has the gear and teamplay to mitigate the damage and the skill to avoid to it as best as possible (via positioning), fights mostly end after the use of channels.

The recent Healer changes are a step in the right direction (increase of heal rate across the board) but they mostly come with survivability decrease for the healers themselves. If it will be enough to make the fast last longer or if AOE criticalmass can still be reached easily remains to be seen.

In my opinion increasing healing output across the board is not an ideal solution, because it leads to a rate escalation:
If the situation is such that the people can die with no heals in 3 seconds but they can also be brought back to full HP also in 3 seconds under no incoming damage, then that would be "balanced" regarding rates.
But then, all it would take is for the healers to blink for 1 second or for a well positioned CC to pretty much end a fight in under 5 seconds. For a healthier METAgame where people don't mindlessly W+channel their enemies to death and are instead incentivized to assist each other and ST them down, we would need a reduction in the overall damage rate (i.e. blanket dps nerfs). Probably coupled with healer output nerfs to deescalate the rate-creep.