Patch Notes 19/03/2025

[Endari]

They should put (idea from halcite)
DIvine impact - replaced with Comet of Sigmar - The priest throws a fiery missile that takes the form of Sigmar's famed twin-tailed comet. The miniature comet streaks towards an opponent of the priest's choice within range.
2 seconds but from range and snare the target for 5 seconds 20% or give use a boost our self for 5 seconds 20% increase speed.

It is an interesting idea, i think every wp agrees the class is lacking a gap closer. Coming from a White lion/WH and then playing a WP it's still a shock to me, but pretty much any mdps class from a basic slayer to tank SM has gap closers in one way or another including the mirror DoK.

That this obvious shortcoming of a mdps spec having no gap closer still persists after a patch dedicated to the class is a mystery to me. Most also seems to agree a 20% is all that it would take to correct the problem, like the old removed judgement effect.

Why does WP (or DoK) need a ranged snare or closer at all? They are not real mdps, they are an off spec for a healer class.

They have access to heals and a melee snare. The counter-play to them should be ranged classes. If solo you endure, break LoS and heal up until you can maneuver to close or, in a group setting, push forward with your tank while getting heals from a real healer.

Why should White Lions have access to aoe? it's an offspec for a single target class. Why should 2h tanks have access to taunt/guard? It's an offspec of a real tank class. Why should.... Any offspec is valid and was fully intended by the devs of both WAR and RoR, so stop with that it's not a real dps crap please and really because they have a melee snare and melee heal don't need a ranged snare? You know many melee dps have some form of a melee heal right? Slayer,Choppa,Melee SH, Mara, some tanks as well and they have a snare and KD and disarm!

Anyway the real issue has always been that DPS DoKs have always had a ranged snare(CoC+FoK) making the class just a bit more tolerable to play in small man groups/solo, while the DPS WP only had access to a ranged snare for a small window of time. Now I am used to playing the DPS WP without a ranged snare so it's not the end of the world if they don't have one but it sure would be nice and when they did it was in no way game breaking.

[Aethilmar]

It is an interesting idea, i think every wp agrees the class is lacking a gap closer. Coming from a White lion/WH and then playing a WP it's still a shock to me, but pretty much any mdps class from a basic slayer to tank SM has gap closers in one way or another including the mirror DoK.

That this obvious shortcoming of a mdps spec having no gap closer still persists after a patch dedicated to the class is a mystery to me. Most also seems to agree a 20% is all that it would take to correct the problem, like the old removed judgement effect.

Why does WP (or DoK) need a ranged snare or closer at all? They are not real mdps, they are an off spec for a healer class.

They have access to heals and a melee snare. The counter-play to them should be ranged classes. If solo you endure, break LoS and heal up until you can maneuver to close or, in a group setting, push forward with your tank while getting heals from a real healer.

Why should White Lions have access to aoe? it's an offspec for a single target class. Why should 2h tanks have access to taunt/guard? It's an offspec of a real tank class. Why should.... Any offspec is valid and was fully intended by the devs of both WAR and RoR, so stop with that it's not a real dps crap please and really because they have a melee snare and melee heal don't need a ranged snare? You know many melee dps have some form of a melee heal right? Slayer,Choppa,Melee SH, Mara, some tanks as well and they have a snare and KD and disarm!

Anyway the real issue has always been that DPS DoKs have always had a ranged snare(CoC+FoK) making the class just a bit more tolerable to play in small man groups/solo, while the DPS WP only had access to a ranged snare for a small window of time. Now I am used to playing the DPS WP without a ranged snare so it's not the end of the world if they don't have one but it sure would be nice and when they did it was in no way game breaking.

And WP has heals and cleanse and rez among other things. You got some thing they don't. Want to give those up for your charge?

Bottom line is "dps" WP need some sort of counter play. What is the counter play to WP/DoK if they have ranged snare and/or charge?

[Endari]

Why does WP (or DoK) need a ranged snare or closer at all? They are not real mdps, they are an off spec for a healer class.

They have access to heals and a melee snare. The counter-play to them should be ranged classes. If solo you endure, break LoS and heal up until you can maneuver to close or, in a group setting, push forward with your tank while getting heals from a real healer.

Why should White Lions have access to aoe? it's an offspec for a single target class. Why should 2h tanks have access to taunt/guard? It's an offspec of a real tank class. Why should.... Any offspec is valid and was fully intended by the devs of both WAR and RoR, so stop with that it's not a real dps crap please and really because they have a melee snare and melee heal don't need a ranged snare? You know many melee dps have some form of a melee heal right? Slayer,Choppa,Melee SH, Mara, some tanks as well and they have a snare and KD and disarm!

Anyway the real issue has always been that DPS DoKs have always had a ranged snare(CoC+FoK) making the class just a bit more tolerable to play in small man groups/solo, while the DPS WP only had access to a ranged snare for a small window of time. Now I am used to playing the DPS WP without a ranged snare so it's not the end of the world if they don't have one but it sure would be nice and when they did it was in no way game breaking.

And WP has heals and cleanse and rez among other things. You got some thing they don't. Want to give those up for your charge?

Bottom line is "dps" WP need some sort of counter play. What is the counter play to WP/DoK if they have ranged snare and/or charge?

Fail to see anywhere in my post the mention of charge. Counter play huh? how about KD for that telegraphed heal you are sooooo concerned about or block or parry or absorb or detaunt or punt or instant stealth or break los or get too close. There is so much counter play the DPS WP/DoK what more do you want?

[Reivren27]

Whenever the dps wp/dok channel is mentioned as an argument, I always tell those people: go and play dps wp/dok, let's see your results.

[Nameless]

The thing is that dok/wp are healers so they got some tools that dps classes dont have and vie versa. If the additional tools are good enough is other topic but you had cleanse on 5 sec cd, group buble, ress, now 2 detaunts and some base range heals.
Beside that you play at group and your groupmates provide cc and allow you to catch your target. Why all discussions goes to 1v1 mode.

[Han]

...Why all discussions goes to 1v1 mode.

Because some people want all the benefits of healers/dps with 0 drawbacks

[Nelly74]

...Why all discussions goes to 1v1 mode.

Because some people want all the benefits of healers/dps with 0 drawbacks

Unfortunately, this applies to some classes but not to others. Take the WL, for example—it has absolutely every advantage with no drawbacks whatsoever, same for the AM and Sham. If I were feeling cheeky, I’d also add the SW to the list.

On the other hand, some classes are seriously struggling to the point of becoming irrelevant, with the undisputed champion of underperformance being the Slayer (as some graphs clearly show).

There’s still quite a bit of work to do on that front, but overall, this latest patch seems like a success.

In any case, kudos for the hard work!

[tazdingo]

pretty amazing changes shaman and am now particularly look a lot more interesting

[Magusar]

When people talk about a bracket, they often forget about any specific factors inherent to that bracket. Sometimes brackets can be gamemodes, such as 1 vs 1, 6 vs 6, 12 vs 12, etc. Sometimes it can be a whole realm, such as order. I'm watching the debate over the gap-closer for WP, and both sides are missing some details.

The gap-closer supporters on the last pages miss the point that it is primarily a group game (always was) and balancing has always been based on a group of people playing together. 1 vs 1 was never a starting point, although it was always a part of the game, which for some reason was severely cut in ror. In order to return 1 vs 1 to its previous course, it will be enough to stop intentionally harming it, as it was with the regen pocket or chest, pay attention to completely idiotic examples of imbalance like dps shaman/archmage and defensive WE + population split by zone and other gamemodes. As a duelist against rdd dps WP has already become better with this patch - the rolled back "Judgement" works for the guilty soul and this is very decent damage at a distance for 1 vs 1.

Opponents of the gap-closer for WP miss the specifics of the Order realm. I would not even say that this is a specificity, personally I call it a disease. It is expressed in the fact that the order has much fewer competitive combinations between classes, then destruction, and those that are very narrowly focused. We have already seen this in the past.
The simplest examples:

1. WH - physical damage dealer who, outside of the Confession path (which is used mainly in solo builds), does not have a sane armordebuff, while dealing physical (probably about 99%, fervor and torment from behind are not a panacea) burst damage, WH does not have any tools to bypass this moment, and this in turn means that at least someone else should have an armordebuff (until recently, only IB and WL had usable armor debuffs in order side) and the more - the better (wow) + WH is not a very tenacious character in itself, like 80% of the rest of the order dps. Investing in ws at the expense of str or mcrit is not a good investment for WH like this. Ultimately, I'm getting to the point that WH, outside of the moralbomb, should play with WL.

2. SL - a narrowly focused mdps that always did one thing well - it dealt aoe damage in the frontline well, while scaring tanks with his presence. This was achieved by combining direct damage and AoE damage + bypass defens mechanics. Here we ran into one thing and it sounds like this: "1 slayer does not do frontline AoE well enough, 2 slayers do frontline AoE well enough. The slayer does other things worse than others". As a result, we had double slayer setups. At the same time, their narrow focus did not go away - they were still good only against the melee line - the slightest well-playing rdps/des wb which can matter of kite potential created big problems for this party/sl wbs. Even such a super-powerful/sarcasm character as a sorc could create problems for a slayer, which speaks to the degree of his power/again sarcasm in this direction.

3. Finally a WP - here I will be brief - it simply has no opportunity to even hit a target that is at a sufficient distance, unless he again plays with WL. Even a bad RDD/healer can be even slightly unpunished for a bad game, and this is already wrong. In defense of the new rework, I will say that it is now it will maybe be possible to play with SW, but this is not certain, I have not played the new WP in a party yet.

There are much more examples. I have given only a few. The whole realm of the order is like this.

Regarding the WP and the gap-closer - no big improvements are needed, but positive changes in this direction would be good. The main thing is not to overdo it. In any case, during the future DPS rework, it will be possible to nerf/roll back the changes if they are too strong in the new model.

[yoluigi]

Even a 5% snare would make a differance lol As a WP If you use flee your fu*/$ No resource. And yes WP and dok is super easy to counter if you play your cards right.

Needless to say Divine impact is useless and pretty bad. Soo hopefully they change that ability.