The new player experience in a nutshell

[kleinbuchstabe]

one month is enough to get bis in both games. you have some serious problems.

If you get BIS in one month... maybe YOU are the one with some serious problems here xD

Doing 16 dungeons is a lot, that's easily 30 hours if you also consider the time it takes to find a group (probably very hard outside of prime time) and that's generous and assumes that you have a 100% success rate which I heavily doubt when pugging. And I don't want to devalue the PvE content, there are lots of people who enjoy it but I do not and it's not the reason why I've picked up the game.

My post was related to the topic, of how new players can avoid suffering in the fresh 16+ situation in RvR. And imo the best way to go is the PvE path, to get some valid gear, before joining the lakes. Further i dont expect that the average new player got unlimited time for gaming. So i suggested to do 1 dungeon per day. Even if you fail a run and try a second time, or need some time to find a group, still one dungeon a day should be possible for most people. And if i count correctly, one month got more than 16 days, or 23 inluding one week to hit the 40. So its a pretty generous account, wich contains some buffer as well...

BUT after getting so much resistance against my approach to help, i appologize and wont try it again.

[Ragnaroek93]

My post was related to the topic, of how new players can avoid suffering in the fresh 16+ situation in RvR. And imo the best way to go is the PvE path, to get some valid gear, before joining the lakes. Further i dont expect that the average new player got unlimited time for gaming. So i suggested to do 1 dungeon per day. Even if you fail a run and try a second time, or need some time to find a group, still one dungeon a day should be possible for most people. And if i count correctly, one month got more than 16 days, or 23 inluding one week to hit the 40. So its a pretty generous account, wich contains some buffer as well...

BUT after getting so much resistance against my approach to help, i appologize and wont try it again.

To be honest, 16+ was kinda ok because of scenarios (I didn't find the difference between a 16 and 39 player anywhere near as oppressive as a fresh 40 vs a sov geared player). If it takes a month or not isn't really relevant, it's more about the /played time. And getting that PvE gear will still take a while, especially if you don't really enjoy PvE dungeons. That'll be very long 30-50 hours. Like is it really faster after all than just suffering through PvP since you also get renown ranks from PvP which you need anyways?

You don't have to apologize for anything, it's just that having to do PvE instead of PvP feels like a real bummer.

[Scragmuncher]

80% of the problems I see people having here can be solved by joining an established guild. One that regularly runs coordinated warbands on discord and has active members.
Ask on the RoR discord which guilds are active in your timezone and side.
If they are only recruiting 40's at the moment, just wait till you are 40 and then join. Don't join one of the billion tiny guilds that only have 6 ppl on in prime time.

If you are lvl 16-25 just run SC's till you are 30+. Try and find a pre-made group with a 2-2-2 setup. If there are none, make your own. You don't need to be in discord for mid tier.

The RoR community, as a whole, is pretty fantastic. If you ask for help it quite likely someone will step up.

You're completely missing the point. Joining a guild shouldn't be the only solution. The excessive grind is useless and is killing the games chance at having a higher population and pushes away newer players. You can't just fix every problem by being in a guild.

It shouldn't be up to the games community to make up for the shortcomings of the games design. Especially considering how easy and how small the changes would need to be to make the game more accessible for newer players. It would take wayyyy less time than trying to balance classes (As if that even matters if there's hardly anyone to play against in the first place).

It's not even debatable, just fact at this point; the priority should 100% be focused on getting new players in the game and then keeping them, otherwise anything else that is done is just a waste of time because as things stand this game will die a death of 1000 cuts slowly bleeding out.

I've played every single MMO that's come out in the past 20 years; I've seen this same **** happen over and over and over again for years. Either the devs wake up and do something about it or the game has no future, plain and simple.

I didn't say it was the only option, but it's probably the easiest.

What 'excessive grind' are we talking about? It is entirely possible to get to vanq gear in like 3 months of pugbanding/sc grinding and then you are set for like 90% of the content in the game.
If you know what you are doing in this game you can be in pre-bis pve gear within like 4 days of hitting 40, even if you are low rr.

[kleinbuchstabe]

To be honest, 16+ was kinda ok because of scenarios (I didn't find the difference between a 16 and 39 player anywhere near as oppressive as a fresh 40 vs a sov geared player).

yea whatever, the fresh 40+ situation is the same problem, and the same solution. Get gear from dungeons to close the gab very quickly.

If it takes a month or not isn't really relevant, it's more about the /played time. And getting that PvE gear will still take a while, especially if you don't really enjoy PvE dungeons. That'll be very long 30-50 hours.

Well, first you say its not relevant how long it takes, and now you complain about playtime? i gave you the playtimes for each dugeon. dont know how you come to 30-50 hours. Like explained, most dungeons take more or less one hour, HV 30min in a clean run, only BS takes little longer with 1,5 hours. But in average its 16 hours for 16 dungeons, provided that you got a clear run without failing. Thats far away from 50 hours playtime, isnt it? Even if you double it, cause you fail 50% of the runs, 32 hours would be maximum.

Like is it really faster after all than just suffering through PvP since you also get renown ranks from PvP which you need anyways?

Are you serious? What do you think how far you will come with 16 hours of PvP Gameplay time? The sets build up on each other, so you must pay every single set from scratch with war crests. What do you think how long it takes, to grind the crests for all PvP sets? I can guarantee you, the dungeon way is a tremendous shortcut. And and top you avoid suffering of being fresh ungeared one-hit toon.
And renown istn a problem. You cant do a single step in PvP without geting it. Until lvl 60 you grow ridiculously fast. Starts going slowly with rr70. Until that its easy going.

You don't have to apologize for anything, it's just that having to do PvE instead of PvP feels like a real bummer.

Yea feel free to do whatever you want. If you enjoy the long and hard way, go for it. I just can say, since they upgraded the PvE sets with the wards of the tome unlocks, i was motivated again to level new chars, because its a nice and easy way to go, and in no time you can go on playing seriously with the new toon.

[Nameless]

You could to it tru pvp comfortable to vanq gear. Since orvr reward change gold bags are dropping much more often even if u solo so you can gain most sets tru that method + buying from ah boots and gloves. You really spend 40 crests per priece so full vanq it cost like 200 crests.
The problem is going past vanq with pvp gear is too costly.
Ive do it with my dok and as it seems i will be bis geared at rr84 prolly. Not that atm my gear is not solid enough but the last piece tha tie all together will take some time

[Ragnaroek93]

To be honest, 16+ was kinda ok because of scenarios (I didn't find the difference between a 16 and 39 player anywhere near as oppressive as a fresh 40 vs a sov geared player).

yea whatever, the fresh 40+ situation is the same problem, and the same solution. Get gear from dungeons to close the gab very quickly.

If it takes a month or not isn't really relevant, it's more about the /played time. And getting that PvE gear will still take a while, especially if you don't really enjoy PvE dungeons. That'll be very long 30-50 hours.

Well, first you say its not relevant how long it takes, and now you complain about playtime? i gave you the playtimes for each dugeon. dont know how you come to 30-50 hours. Like explained, most dungeons take more or less one hour, HV 30min in a clean run, only BS takes little longer with 1,5 hours. But in average its 16 hours for 16 dungeons, provided that you got a clear run without failing. Thats far away from 50 hours playtime, isnt it? Even if you double it, cause you fail 50% of the runs, 32 hours would be maximum.

Like is it really faster after all than just suffering through PvP since you also get renown ranks from PvP which you need anyways?

Are you serious? What do you think how far you will come with 16 hours of PvP Gameplay time? The sets build up on each other, so you must pay every single set from scratch with war crests. What do you think how long it takes, to grind the crests for all PvP sets? I can guarantee you, the dungeon way is a tremendous shortcut. And and top you avoid suffering of being fresh ungeared one-hit toon.
And renown istn a problem. You cant do a single step in PvP without geting it. Until lvl 60 you grow ridiculously fast. Starts going slowly with rr70. Until that its easy going.

You don't have to apologize for anything, it's just that having to do PvE instead of PvP feels like a real bummer.

Yea feel free to do whatever you want. If you enjoy the long and hard way, go for it. I just can say, since they upgraded the PvE sets with the wards of the tome unlocks, i was motivated again to level new chars, because its a nice and easy way to go, and in no time you can go on playing seriously with the new toon.

I've only tried GB and it certainly took longer than a hour, add the time it takes to find a group for it and take account for failed runs then we're talking more about 2+ hours for each dungeon. 16 hour might work for someone who's already familiar with the dungeons and has people to do the dungeons with instead of having to rely on pugs (groups are also non existant outside of prime time).

And why is there such a massive focus on PvE sets in this game to begin with? It's a PvP game and from a PvP game I don't think that my expectations of the conqueror set being competitive (in PvP, make it worthless for PvE content, I don't care) are unreasonable. If anything, expecting people to either outright suffer through PvP or play PvE for two weeks straight in a PvP game (without touching PvP at all lol) for a game which has 1k peak players is unreasonable.

And yes, you might laugh about reaching level 40 and getting conqueror set. For me it was some kind of a milestone to reach 40 and get the conqueror + genesis sets and I expected to be able to feel good about reaching that which I certainly do not now. You can try to sugarcoat it as much as you like but this game just sucks for new players.

You could to it tru pvp comfortable to vanq gear. Since orvr reward change gold bags are dropping much more often even if u solo so you can gain most sets tru that method + buying from ah boots and gloves. You really spend 40 crests per priece so full vanq it cost like 200 crests.
The problem is going past vanq with pvp gear is too costly.
Ive do it with my dok and as it seems i will be bis geared at rr84 prolly. Not that atm my gear is not solid enough but the last piece tha tie all together will take some time

Well that's a bummer but thanks for this honest reality check. I do indeed think that this is the wrong game for me now...

[Nameless]

The rhing is that for support classes gear is secondary to the quality of your group so with vanq you are decent level to complete vs most setups if your group rise to the challenge. Even at bis top premade will demolish you cos they got much more experience playing together, they knew their moves so gear wont help much at that state

[salazarn]

My problem atm is that destro dont leave their base without 24 guys in a 2-2-2. Its incredibly boring and tryhard

[ASmellyMan]

The obsession with dungeons is really sad. This is a PvP game, pull your pampers up and try playing the game.

[Ragnaroek93]

The rhing is that for support classes gear is secondary to the quality of your group so with vanq you are decent level to complete vs most setups if your group rise to the challenge. Even at bis top premade will demolish you cos they got much more experience playing together, they knew their moves so gear wont help much at that state

Vanq gear still seems to be pretty poopy to be honest, invader is like the first set tier that looks competitive to me. The overall gear of the group still matters a lot, everyone else in the group has to do more in order to negate an undergeared healer. I might consider going through all of this PvE nightmare once if there'd be a catch up system for alts or changes coming which makes alts easier. But the current state is a huge bummer for me. I've started this game with 4 friends, two of them quit already and my other mate who got me into this game to begin with asked me today to try out the new season in WoW. The reason for them quitting always boils down to this absurd powercreep. Something like invader should be the starter gear.