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The new player experience in a nutshell

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Ninjagon
Posts: 528

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#131 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:18 pm

Ragnaroek93 wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:40 am Problem isn't PvE gear, the problem is how bad and awful conqueror and vanq set is.
Really? Look at my sorc alt gear right now. And be assured that with this, I can freeze down most full sov characters quickly and brutally or turn a RvR fight, by hard damage AOE pressure. Because it is not only about a gear.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 930/armory
kleinbuchstabe wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:14 pm Bloodlord weapon is not BiS, and in any case "for almost every class"... Not DPS wise, and not proc wise.
You are mistaken. Bloodlord weapon is BiS for most DPS classes in the game. And to get it means only ONE Bastion Stairs run. Easy-peasy.
Do your math properly and you will know.
Rabenfeder wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 3:09 pm I now know over 10 people who left the game as newbies for exactly this reason. Because they are simply victims and the game is no fun that way.
In PvE you get killed even if you are the same level because of overly strong NPCs and an absurd spawn rate.
In RvR you are just a victim as a newbie.
Group searching doesn't help either....
Then it looks like Warhammer is maybe not optimal game for you. Do not expect things for free here. But if you make sufficient effort, your reward will be that much greater. And there are TONS of guides around, and people willing to help.
iPeriphery wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 8:36 pm Sorry to point out the harsh reality but this game is already practically dead as it stands. I only say what I say because I genuinely care about this game.
Yes, and it is happily dying for more than decade :-)
Ninjamag - The Sorcerer. RETRIBUTION / DEVASTATION guild.
Order: Velmires WP, Carnow Knight, Ninjagon BW, Ninjab WL
Destro: Ninjamar mara, Khaininja DoK, Ninjaguard chosen, Ninjamag sorc
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Ragnaroek93
Posts: 27

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#132 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:06 pm

Pulptenks wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:54 amScenario are just not that popular. It's the same with a game that has near a 500k players. Why wow Solo Shuffle was taking me 2 hours on average for a pop? People don't like it. Scenario pops mostly on week end or with event, this is known since years.

Shuffle queue is long for dps players because not enough healers are queueing, the max amount of players doesn't affect the queue time here (and I've never sat in a 2 hour queue on dps, on my healer the queue time is literally 3 seconds). 72468 Shuffle rounds were played during the last 72 hours on the EU server alone, so I wouldn't say that the mode is unpopular.
Meanwhile two weeks ago I had a week off and tried to do a dungeon in RoR at 12 am (EU time) and couldn't find people for GB. Logged off after an hour. The game definitely does not have too many players.

Ninjagon wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:18 pm
Ragnaroek93 wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:40 am Problem isn't PvE gear, the problem is how bad and awful conqueror and vanq set is.
Really? Look at my sorc alt gear right now. And be assured that with this, I can freeze down most full sov characters quickly and brutally or turn a RvR fight, by hard damage AOE pressure. Because it is not only about a gear.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 930/armory
kleinbuchstabe wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:14 pm Bloodlord weapon is not BiS, and in any case "for almost every class"... Not DPS wise, and not proc wise.
You are mistaken. Bloodlord weapon is BiS for most DPS classes in the game. And to get it means only ONE Bastion Stairs run. Easy-peasy.
Do your math properly and you will know.
Rabenfeder wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 3:09 pm I now know over 10 people who left the game as newbies for exactly this reason. Because they are simply victims and the game is no fun that way.
In PvE you get killed even if you are the same level because of overly strong NPCs and an absurd spawn rate.
In RvR you are just a victim as a newbie.
Group searching doesn't help either....
Then it looks like Warhammer is maybe not optimal game for you. Do not expect things for free here. But if you make sufficient effort, your reward will be that much greater. And there are TONS of guides around, and people willing to help.
iPeriphery wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 8:36 pm Sorry to point out the harsh reality but this game is already practically dead as it stands. I only say what I say because I genuinely care about this game.
Yes, and it is happily dying for more than decade :-)

Your char is literally rr72. Mine is 45. How is vanq "good" when it's still 20 ilvl below BIS? Do you realise how insane a 20 ilvl difference is? The PvP starter gear in WoW is 13 ilvl below BiS and you can farm it in a few hours (or skip it entirely because of how fast you farm pre bis and bis nowadays).

What sufficient effort gets rewarded? BiS gear from afking in scenarios and autobands for a few hundred hours? That's supposed to feel rewarding?

bannedguy wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:34 am
Martok wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2025 4:25 pm
Ragnaroek93 wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2025 4:13 pmBut since you have 3 rr80+ chars and haven't done a single ranked and have a negative scenario win rate I can see why you're worried about a lower gear gap.

When you have to resort to the Ad Hominem fallacy to make your point your point isn't worth making.
new guy gets ad hominem fallacy attacked, he responds in kind, and your reaction is to ad hominem attack the new guy? gj mister big streamer guy.

re this topic: OP bro you should stop doing this, decision on this issue rests within hands of people that think they're skillful, when actually it is their gear that gives them edge over anyone who dont have bis gear. if there was no such big power creep effect and if time spent in power creep was reduced, they wouldnt be able to kill anyone. this is known by everyone, i already got banned for this once, here we go again :D

Yeah, it's not worth engaging with these trolls. They're the reason why something like check-pvp exists in WoW. Anyways, I pretty much moved on (and my friends did as well), maybe I'll give it another try in 6-12 months but wouldn't hold my breath lol.

Rapzel
Posts: 446

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#133 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:23 pm

Ragnaroek93 wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:06 pm ...
Call people trolls, but compare item levels in WoW with the item levels in RoR. Proclaims they reached RR 45, which is about 1-2 hour(s) of playing after reaching 40 and compared it with WoW PvP gear that "can be done in a few hours". Ok bruh...

Ragnaroek93
Posts: 27

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#134 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:34 pm

Rapzel wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:23 pm
Ragnaroek93 wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:06 pm ...
Call people trolls, but compare item levels in WoW with the item levels in RoR. Proclaims they reached RR 45, which is about 1-2 hour(s) of playing after reaching 40 and compared it with WoW PvP gear that "can be done in a few hours". Ok bruh...

Yes, because you're starting with level 40 and the lvl 16-40 RvR experience is so much better and doesn't take any time at all. Don't complain about getting called troll if you claim anything other than catching up in other MMOs is magnitudes of order faster than in this game. Off to ignore you go.

Bankei
Posts: 7

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#135 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:46 pm

Ragnaroek93 wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:34 pm
Rapzel wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:23 pm
Ragnaroek93 wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:06 pm ...
Call people trolls, but compare item levels in WoW with the item levels in RoR. Proclaims they reached RR 45, which is about 1-2 hour(s) of playing after reaching 40 and compared it with WoW PvP gear that "can be done in a few hours". Ok bruh...

Yes, because you're starting with level 40 and the lvl 16-40 RvR experience is so much better and doesn't take any time at all. Don't complain about getting called troll if you claim anything other than catching up in other MMOs is magnitudes of order faster than in this game. Off to ignore you go.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

iPeriphery
Posts: 21

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#136 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

Bankei wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:06 pm From the time this thread was opened, I've literally leveled a character from 1 to 40 doing SCs. I play during NA hours mostly and I can say that everything iPeriphery are saying is a flat out lie.

Even yesterday, I had an hour to play between noon and 1PM and I managed to run 4 scenarios. My evenings are mostly for warband play. I also work from home and sometimes log on at crazy hours, there's always something to do, something going on.

Someone in the thread said it: the best experience is getting into a fun guild and joining an organized warband. This game isn't balanced around small scale or 1v1, it's all about the RvR. In a warband, a bolstered level 16 can contribute in a meaningful way.

As you get stronger and more knowledgeable, your role in the warband will change.

Yeah okay bud, everything I say is automatically a lie because you managed to get 1 hour of SC's to pop 4 times in a row.

That's a funny ass joke. Truly :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I never said that it wasn't possible to have a good play session, just that it was inconsistent; but I guess that you can't read properly.

Idk what you expect from a game that sits at 500-900ish or less active players the majority of the day during most of the week except on Friday-Sunday.

That was just ONE point I was making from my own personal experience (not even the main point I am trying to make which is more about the Gear Gap once). You just happened to be lucky during that 12-1PM time period but that doesn't disprove my point of how sporadic and random activity will be each play session.

I play every single day and am on for 8-12 hours at least, weekdays are most definitely not popping the majority of the time (AKA for your slow brain; there are 24 hours in a day, Things popping for 2-5 hours MAX at any given random time in total is still leaving 19 hours of mostly nothing on average.)

Nobody said it was completely dead. But that doesn't mean that there aren't times where you will be waiting 20-60+ minutes for a queue pop or for anything to be happening in RVR. Because this happens all the time.

Even while I'm in RVR warbands I always have my Queue going. I leave WB, Requeue, and then rejoin the WB so I always have a chance for a SC to pop while roaming.


If you could learn how to read properly you would see that I said:

"I fortunately work from home and am on almost all day every day with my queue just sitting there waiting to pop (Especially if there's no RVR going on and I can't roam while waiting for queue), so you would think there would be people to play against at some point but the majority of days there's only a 2-5 hour window if you're lucky, where there's actually anything going on. (And this time window is usually not all at once and is spread throughout the day)."

Meaning that the active times are sporadic and never consistent so it all depends on your luck each day how much activity you will see on any given day.

It's like you morons can't read past a 4th grade level.

Don't just assume that people don't know what they are talking about and have 0 experience.

Also, don't be a gaslighting POS. There are legitimate problems that need to be addressed. Just because you can't be bothered to read every single articulate post I made (let alone having the attention span to read through 1 post fully without skimming and actually comprehending the points being made) doesn't mean that I am incorrect.

Especially considering the FACT that this game has a HUGE power gap from the time you hit 16 (Even bolstered full buffed with talismens), until the time you hit lvl 40 RR 60+

I am far from the only one saying these things; the majority of people with these complaints you will probably never see even bother making a forum post because they quit.

It seems like you guys will say ANYTHING to justify not making the game more accessible for new player retention (Because f(_)ck having a better game and population overall I guess?)

And just for the record, these things don't even effect me seeing as I am already maxed out BIS on my main. I am simply advocating for the new players.


As I said before:
I have literally invited 6 friends to play this game with me and the majority have lost interest in the game as soon as they hit 16, or somewhere between lvl 16-30. (And these are seasoned MMO PVP Veterans, not just a bunch of random noobs with no PVP or MMO Experience)

Some had made a few alts and got them all to 16, but ended up throwing in the towel there too once they realized past lvl16 wasn't worth the time sink or effort to them in proportion to the reward of hitting lvl 40 60+ RR with at least semi-decently competitive gear.

Surely there has to be a reason why not a single one stuck around to even hit lvl 40. Let alone the grind that would await them to hit RR 60+, and more realistically RR 80+

Things don't just happen for no reason.


You hit lvl 16 and immediately get thrown into the same area as 30-40+ lvl people with a ton of people being RR 60+ with a huge gear advantage....

Surely nothing could possibly be wrong with that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have to give people a reason to stick around and WANT to play the game. This literally can ONLY benefit Veteran players, so I really don't understand what the backlash from some people is for.

You already have your gear, so now there would simply be more people at your power level to sh1t on you if you are bad, gear carried, and have no skill (which is my guess for why people are so vehemently against this).

Otherwise there is LITERALLY no threat, or downsides at all to having a larger player base that is on equal footing gear wise.

SKILL should always trump GEAR in a PVP game. No IF, ANDS, or BUTS, Period.
Last edited by iPeriphery on Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cfsmain
Posts: 5

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#137 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:26 pm

A lot of you guys seem to really hate the idea of either helping people catch up OR make the grind less terrible and boring. It's not fun and it's not productive, you are meat existing only to take a spot in the roster and keel over when someone glares at you.

I really like the concept of the game, and I even like grinding, but standing in the middle of a WB pretending I can do anything useful is B_O_R_I_N_G.

What are you afraid of?

I read it over and over again and I'm very close to adding to the statistic of quitters, not because the game is hard, or skill issue, or antisocial, no. Because the grind is boring and one-dimensional. Which makes it a prime candidate for getting gutted.

I'm not sure I want to waste my time on a promise anymore. Every day I shift further away from optimism. You're about to lose two more people cause neither of us is going to solo this mess.

To all the old players who say "good, leave", "the grind is fine", "too many players already" and laughing it up. It's hard to see the big picture when you're in your little clique. But they will also leave eventually because life gets in the way sooner or later. A little discreet self sabotage.

It's a lot like that South Park episode "Make Love, Not Warcraft", where they killed 10,000 boars over several weeks so they can finally kill the high level griefer and then Stan asks "So what do we do now?". Then Eric answers "What do you mean? Now we can finally play the game.".

It's like that but even more boring.

iPeriphery
Posts: 21

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#138 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:28 pm

cfsmain wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:26 pm A lot of you guys seem to really hate the idea of either helping people catch up OR make the grind less terrible and boring. It's not fun and it's not productive, you are meat existing only to take a spot in the roster and keel over when someone glares at you.

I really like the concept of the game, and I even like grinding, but standing in the middle of a WB pretending I can do anything useful is B_O_R_I_N_G.

What are you afraid of?

I read it over and over again and I'm very close to adding to the statistic of quitters, not because the game is hard, or skill issue, or antisocial, no. Because the grind is boring and one-dimensional. Which makes it a prime candidate for getting gutted.

I'm not sure I want to waste my time on a promise anymore. Every day I shift further away from optimism. You're about to lose two more people cause neither of us is going to solo this mess.

To all the old players who say "good, leave", "the grind is fine", "too many players already" and laughing it up. It's hard to see the big picture when you're in your little clique. But they will also leave eventually because life gets in the way sooner or later. A little discreet self sabotage.

It's a lot like that South Park episode "Make Love, Not Warcraft", where they killed 10,000 boars over several weeks so they can finally kill the high level griefer and then Stan asks "So what do we do now?". Then Eric answers "What do you mean? Now we can finally play the game.".

It's like that but even more boring.

Thank you for saying something intelligent and relevant to the conversation.

Truly, I appreciate it immensely.

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Ninjagon
Posts: 528

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#139 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:52 pm

Ragnaroek93 wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:06 pm
Your char is literally rr72. Mine is 45. How is vanq "good" when it's still 20 ilvl below BIS? Do you realise how insane a 20 ilvl difference is? The PvP starter gear in WoW is 13 ilvl below BiS and you can farm it in a few hours (or skip it entirely because of how fast you farm pre bis and bis nowadays).

What sufficient effort gets rewarded? BiS gear from afking in scenarios and autobands for a few hundred hours? That's supposed to feel rewarding?
My sorc is 72 now, but I had the same gear from RR 58. And it is good enough to compete against the sov players. (If you know, what you are doing).
Do not ever compare item lvl from WoW here in RoR - they are not the same.

So the point was already mentioned here. It is the player who must learn, adapt and overcome the obstacles, not the game. You can manage it too.
The game and gear progress is actually much more friendly and easier, than before.
Ninjamag - The Sorcerer. RETRIBUTION / DEVASTATION guild.
Order: Velmires WP, Carnow Knight, Ninjagon BW, Ninjab WL
Destro: Ninjamar mara, Khaininja DoK, Ninjaguard chosen, Ninjamag sorc
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3rdworldofficer
Posts: 51

Re: The new player experience in a nutshell

Post#140 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:11 pm

Culexus wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:11 am
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iPeriphery wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:05 am Exactly this. I don't understand why this is perceived as such a radical take. It's just common sense and totally reasonable.

I don't know why people are acting like it would take some ungodly large amount of work to make a few small fixes making gear more attainable (That isn't PVE) for newer players to catch up with at a more reasonable pace.

Why do we expect players to be for the most part deadweight punching bags for the majority of their game experience, and then act surprised when they leave?

I don't understand why that is some sacred cow not to be touched. This is not something that is being blown out of proportion at all.


I have literally invited 6 friends to play this game with me and the majority have lost interest in the game as soon as they hit 16, or somewhere between lvl 16-30. (And these are seasoned MMO PVP Veterans, not just a bunch of random noobs with no PVP or MMO Experience)

Some had made a few alts and got them all to 16, but ended up throwing in the towel there too once they realized past lvl16 wasn't worth the effort to them.

Surely there has to be a reason why not a single one stuck around to even hit lvl 40. Let alone the grind that would await them to hit RR 60+, and more realistically RR 80+

Things don't just happen for no reason.


You hit lvl 16 and get immediately thrown into the same area as 30-40+ lvl people with a ton of people being RR 60+ with a huge gear advantage....

Surely nothing could possibly be wrong with that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It really wouldn't take much work or effort to simply make some of the higher tiered sets/wards available at a lower RR with a reduced cost to purchase them.

Just fixing those 2 things alone would make a MASSIVE difference and boost the Concurrent Online Player Count Average significantly.


You have to give people a reason to stick around and WANT to play the game. This literally can ONLY benefit Veteran players, so I really don't understand what the backlash from some people is for.

You already have your gear, so now there would simply be more people at your power level to sh1t on you if you are gear carried and have no skill (which is my guess for why people are so vehemently against this).

Otherwise there is LITERALLY no threat, or downsides at all.
You do make some good points, but you're presenting them in a terrible way.

To be frank, you've got too invested in your point of view being correct and are spending more time defending it against criticism rather than presenting it in a well-thought-out and helpful manner. We all believe our ideas are the right ones, but that doesn't make them so, and certainly doesn't mean that others have to agree with you. Most of us here are guilty of falling into this trap at one point or another.

You're far better off putting your ideas together and posting them in the suggestions & feedback forum. If the devs like them, they may incorporate them into the game. If they don't, that's fine too. It's their game and they get to decide what they want to do with it.

Remember, we're testers in an alpha stage game that's still in active development. We have no idea what the game will look like when it's out of alpha so there's no point getting worked up about things as they are right now as anything and everything could be changed. If we have feedback to give, our job is to provide it to the team in a constructive manner. Doesn't mean they'll be implemented, but we've got to do it anyway.
Yeah, I gotta agree with you here. I was pretty convinced on the speaking points, but then I lost interest as soon it became impolite and condescending. The rhetoric is good, but the presentation is, quite frankly, not. I like the passion though. Also, as soon as I see "game is dead/dying" as a talking point, I kinda don't take the rest of the words seriously. Honestly, who cares if the game is dying? People are willing to play it, hell, this whole thing was brought back as a volunteer project after the initial company who made it shut it down. If that's not dedication, I don't know what is.
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