Kotbs Arcing Swing suggestion and about 2h spec

[Farrul]

Knight is a modest 1.4% more than SM over last 90 days.

Chosen is like 4% more than nearest contender of BO over same period.

Folks need to get a grip.

The devil is in the details, general statistics do seldom tell the whole truth.

Ask yourself how many of these % kotbs are 2H, the majority plays SnB and for a good reason, 2H specs are taken for offensive support dps mostly but the 2H knight hits like a wet noodle compared to any other tank in the game. There are of course more 2H SMs running around than 2H kotbs.

With the chosen depending on which hour of the server, it is the opposite, sometimes during NA there are so many 2H chosens running around.

This one of the most common class/combos seen on destro alongside dps shamans. This was even true before they nerfed BO 2H.

[leftayparxoun]

Tzeentchs Reflection don’t work like others magic absorbs. Made test when ability got rework. Not working vs mele magic dmg (like SM, WP), not working vs ranged magic dmg (like SW fester). Working only on magic casters. No idea why. Let me know if you test maybe devs change this.

Stop talking BULLSHIT and misleading, I just tested vs AM dots and it works well, even vs WH bullets !
It means Tzeentchs Reflection will works even vs SM or Engi corporeal dots !

IB's Runic shield works vs Chosen melee magic damage, tested.

There is a distinction to be made between physical / non-physical damage and melee / ranged / magical damage.
Divine Protection (M3) for example specifies that melee damage is absorbed:


Similarly, WE's Treacherous Assault also only procs from magical attacks casted by the enemy:


The same thing goes for Misdirection (Mage M1)

And what is a magical ability you might ask. Well, it's any ability cast using a magic weapon (and Detaunts for some reason)

A similar distinction happens for melee and ranged abilities too.

Are melee or ranged attacks that do non-physical damage considered magical attacks?

No they are not:

And what about Tzeentch's Reflection / Runic Shield?

Tzeentch's Reflection is clearly defined in both tooltip and effect that it works against Magical damage only

This means that it will only absorb magical damage (from AMs, RPs or BWs). The same thing goes for the Discordant Fluctuation aura.

I just tested vs AM dots and it works well, even vs WH bullets !

If from your testing you found that it absorbs some non-magical abilities as you state, then that interaction should be posted on the bugtracker.


Runic Shield on the other hand is an outlier in the database compared to all other abilities that make a similar damage distinction:



It uses a different operation to determine what type of damage should be absorbed. I am not 100% sure how that translates into in game effect, but according to the tooltip, it should function similarly to Tzeentch's Reflection. If it works vs melee or ranged damaging attacks then it should also be bugreported.


Finally, Tzeentch's Reflection is rarely used on warband builds (unlike Focused Mending that is pretty much mandatory).
The main reason is that it cannot be reached in the Mastery tree without losing out on even better defense tools. In the best case scenario, you can pick it up only at full Sov if you decide to give up on both Middle and Right Tree auras and 1 of either Quake, Downfall or Siphoned Energy:


That can be done in case the warband has a lot of Chosens already (e.g. 4-5), but in most cases you'll want to take your Auras and all 3 utily tools.
Losing out Oppression instead of those is possible, but overall not worth it in my opinion.

And as stated before, Silencing a Bright Wizard at a random point with it can be detrimental to your damage drop when you want your CCs to land.

Overall, Tzeentch's Reflection is a decent tool that can maybe be picked up by BIS Chosens but has a lot of drawbacks to it and is situational to its use (certain warbands run no BWs and instead opt for 5-6 WLs 1-2 SWs 1 Engi).

In comparison, Focused Mending is by far the best group support tactic available in the game and is much easier to spec at 7 points in the tree.

[Aethilmar]

Knight is a modest 1.4% more than SM over last 90 days.

Chosen is like 4% more than nearest contender of BO over same period.

Folks need to get a grip.

The devil is in the details, general statistics do seldom tell the whole truth.

Ask yourself how many of these % kotbs are 2H, the majority plays SnB and for a good reason, 2H specs are taken for offensive support dps mostly but the 2H knight hits like a wet noodle compared to any other tank in the game. There are of course more 2H SMs running around than 2H kotbs.

With the chosen depending on which hour of the server, it is the opposite, sometimes during NA there are so many 2H chosens running around.

This one of the most common class/combos seen on destro alongside dps shamans. This was even true before they nerfed BO 2H.

I literally just hit 80 on my 2H knight a few days ago with even sub-optimal gear he is very good. I played him until RR75 or so with SnB and he was also very good.
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/armor ... ter/613805


I have a 2H Chosen with approximately the same gear. Yes he is better at killing but a worse tank than the knight.
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/armor ... ter/428173


And I have my own highly geared 2H SM to compare them against
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/armor ... ter/400191


I solo roam on all these tanks so I have a pretty good idea of their strengths and weaknesses "on their own". Knight/Chosen is pretty good solo/6 man even if they don't quite stack up to the other tanks you you don't have to work hard to perform well.

And either of them are already better WB tanks as 2H than my SM even with WW specced and better WB tanks than IB, BO or BG as well. I think waaaay too many people have memories of how stupidly strong both those classes were on live when there was literally no other reason to take any tank other than maybe for "roleplay". They are at least somewhat brought into line but none of the other tanks can beat a mechanic that has no downsides to it.

[Sever1n]

Reason why 2h dps tanks dead is weaponskill change, and nerf of warlord set. Wich made any tank exept cho and sm with choice, or u live or you make some dmg. Chosend and sm can completely ignore that and on top they can reduse resists around them, making them OP. I always laughed when destro start bragging how lions OP but they dont see 2h SM and CHO as OP at all.

And now we are back with 2h knigths, they dont have armorshred, they dont have magick dmg, they tied to staking nerfed WS. All those info was mentioned like a ton, but kotbs main for some reasons just dont wanna def their class.

About wounds, again top wb comps always used 1 2h knigth and 1bg specifically for debuffing, so theres some balance in that. Problem not in skills, problem that ws patch left 2h dps tanks in very bad spot, like disrupt patch doing now with mages, and for some reason community keep ignoring this.

[nocturnalguest]

It uses a different operation to determine what type of damage should be absorbed. I am not 100% sure how that translates into in game effect, but according to the tooltip, it should function similarly to Tzeentch's Reflection. If it works vs melee or ranged damaging attacks then it should also be bugreported.

You have been around back in a day and should know that Runic Shield is and was an outliner and how it works at the moment is its intended behaviour done on purpose (~2016-2017) and works as it was working back in live. Originally (in ~2015-2016) it used to not work against melee attacks that causes nonephysical dmg but was gladly fixed and now operates properly.
Same should be for absolutely worthless (cause free immunities) Tzeentch's Reflection.
However tho, nice find from ability viewer, Tzeentch's Reflection could definitely use a bugreport as it should work similary to runic shield and brief look at viewer makes me think there are some mistakes.

[leftayparxoun]

You have been around back in a day and should know that Runic Shield is and was an outliner and how it works at the moment is its intended behaviour done on purpose (~2016-2017) and works as it was working back in live. Originally (in ~2015-2016) it used to not work against melee attacks that causes nonephysical dmg but was gladly fixed and now operates properly.
Same should be for absolutely worthless (cause free immunities) Tzeentch's Reflection.
However tho, nice find from ability viewer, Tzeentch's Reflection could definitely use a bugreport as it should work similary to runic shield and brief look at viewer makes me think there are some mistakes.

Was a free-trial at Live and I also took a break between 2017 and 2023, but regardless. Both tooltips indicate that they should just absorb magical damage, not any non-physical.

If that's not the intended behavior then the tooltip (and also the ability coding in the case of Tzeentch's Reflection) should be bugreported.

[nocturnalguest]

Was a free-trial at Live and I also took a break between 2017 and 2023, but regardless. Both tooltips indicate that they should just absorb magical damage, not any non-physical.

If that's not the intended behavior then the tooltip (and also the ability coding in the case of Tzeentch's Reflection) should be bugreported.

Oh, i see, somehow i thought that with your amount of dedication and knowledge you were more active

In regards to tooltips, fixing them all is such a titanic work, most of them were always missleading, incorrect and never really represented reality for this game, both AoR/RoR. Sadly. Hence knowledge database is what would be absolutely handy for newcomers, at least we've got viewer to somewhat check how abilities are actually "coded" but there is still no link for it even in wiki. We are alpha-testing afterall, so give us some ground to base on.

In regards to topic tho, at least you've found somewhat important issue worth bugtracking so all this nonsense that OP started now has some value beside delusional rant

[Battlefield]

This has become a Knight/Chosen pity party.

If they just had these changes they would be the most popular tanks on each side.

Oh, wait, they are ...

Knight is a modest 1.4% more than SM over last 90 days.

Chosen is like 4% more than nearest contender of BO over same period.

Folks need to get a grip.

Yep, but most Knights have a shield spec and definitely more than half of the Chosens have a 2h spec.

[Battlefield]

Reason why 2h dps tanks dead is weaponskill change, and nerf of warlord set. Wich made any tank exept cho and sm with choice, or u live or you make some dmg. Chosend and sm can completely ignore that and on top they can reduse resists around them, making them OP. I always laughed when destro start bragging how lions OP but they dont see 2h SM and CHO as OP at all.

And now we are back with 2h knigths, they dont have armorshred, they dont have magick dmg, they tied to staking nerfed WS. All those info was mentioned like a ton, but kotbs main for some reasons just dont wanna def their class.

About wounds, again top wb comps always used 1 2h knigth and 1bg specifically for debuffing, so theres some balance in that. Problem not in skills, problem that ws patch left 2h dps tanks in very bad spot, like disrupt patch doing now with mages, and for some reason community keep ignoring this.

Yeah, i tried almost full Warlord set with detaunt bonus for 2h Knight and when i saw that not only the damage from the enemy was reduced by 50% but also mine by 50%....it should be at least 25% as Vigilance. There is no point in using it like this now.

[Battlefield]

Tzeentchs Reflection don’t work like others magic absorbs. Made test when ability got rework. Not working vs mele magic dmg (like SM, WP), not working vs ranged magic dmg (like SW fester). Working only on magic casters. No idea why. Let me know if you test maybe devs change this.

Stop talking BULLSHIT and misleading, I just tested vs AM dots and it works well, even vs WH bullets !
It means Tzeentchs Reflection will works even vs SM or Engi corporeal dots !

IB's Runic shield works vs Chosen melee magic damage, tested.

There is a distinction to be made between physical / non-physical damage and melee / ranged / magical damage.
Divine Protection (M3) for example specifies that melee damage is absorbed:


Similarly, WE's Treacherous Assault also only procs from magical attacks casted by the enemy:


The same thing goes for Misdirection (Mage M1)

And what is a magical ability you might ask. Well, it's any ability cast using a magic weapon (and Detaunts for some reason)

A similar distinction happens for melee and ranged abilities too.

Are melee or ranged attacks that do non-physical damage considered magical attacks?

No they are not:

And what about Tzeentch's Reflection / Runic Shield?

Tzeentch's Reflection is clearly defined in both tooltip and effect that it works against Magical damage only

This means that it will only absorb magical damage (from AMs, RPs or BWs). The same thing goes for the Discordant Fluctuation aura.

I just tested vs AM dots and it works well, even vs WH bullets !

If from your testing you found that it absorbs some non-magical abilities as you state, then that interaction should be posted on the bugtracker.


Runic Shield on the other hand is an outlier in the database compared to all other abilities that make a similar damage distinction:



It uses a different operation to determine what type of damage should be absorbed. I am not 100% sure how that translates into in game effect, but according to the tooltip, it should function similarly to Tzeentch's Reflection. If it works vs melee or ranged damaging attacks then it should also be bugreported.


Finally, Tzeentch's Reflection is rarely used on warband builds (unlike Focused Mending that is pretty much mandatory).
The main reason is that it cannot be reached in the Mastery tree without losing out on even better defense tools. In the best case scenario, you can pick it up only at full Sov if you decide to give up on both Middle and Right Tree auras and 1 of either Quake, Downfall or Siphoned Energy:


That can be done in case the warband has a lot of Chosens already (e.g. 4-5), but in most cases you'll want to take your Auras and all 3 utily tools.
Losing out Oppression instead of those is possible, but overall not worth it in my opinion.

And as stated before, Silencing a Bright Wizard at a random point with it can be detrimental to your damage drop when you want your CCs to land.

Overall, Tzeentch's Reflection is a decent tool that can maybe be picked up by BIS Chosens but has a lot of drawbacks to it and is situational to its use (certain warbands run no BWs and instead opt for 5-6 WLs 1-2 SWs 1 Engi).

In comparison, Focused Mending is by far the best group support tactic available in the game and is much easier to spec at 7 points in the tree.

Tzeentch's Reflection ability absorbs even WH bullets I even died to test it and this is absolutely true