[Suggestion] Vanquisher at RR 45

[georgehabadasher]

While I completely agree with the suggestion to adjust the RR ranks, I fear it would make another major problem i the gear progression even worse. Or atleast will not solve it.

A big problem atm is that the rr-progression is so out of touch with the gear progression. The gain of War Crests is so slow, that it just makes sense to get Vanq or BL via PVE and then just grind RR+Crest to go straight to Souv and entirely skipping Inv and Warlord.

I think there needs to be a smoother gear progresssion, maybe via gold bag drops for Inv (at rr60+) and Warlord (at rr70+) or something else. Maybe someone has a good idea how to solve that.

I really think this would also bind more players to the game with a steady progression instead of farming for months and suddenly turning rr78, buying full sov and "finish the game".

I absolutely disagree with this. Since we have a unified currency WAR CRESTS everything is definitely easier. I recently made a new character. I went from t1 to t4 in two weeks. RR 50+ and 4k warcrests in my backpack. I bought a few rvr sets and weapons along the way. Really leveling up and getting currency is trivial in the current time.

How you experience leveling, as someone with multiple 80s and years of game knowledge, and how a new player to the server experiences it are not comparable.

[saupreusse]

Edited the gear progression chart to avoid confusion about the high level sets, which aren't part of my suggestion. I hope this clears things up.

@george
I would agree that gear progression in the lower ranks is much more of an issue for newbies than it is for veterans.

[Hazmy]

As a Guild Master of a newly formed guild with tons of new players in it and fresh 40s:

I fully support this idea as player retention is provenly horrid. But I would also add from our experience as a Guild, that the massive difference between leveling sets and Vanquisher/Onslaught is also a reason our players felt useless. Especially after witnessing each others progress spikes.

Getting them to pre-bis was such a massive leap in power, that was fun at the same time ( progression is fun and important ), but also discouraging to see how useless you are before getting there.

So I would also suggest re-balancing the power gap between gear sets to have a steady increase in power instead of a spike - and then reintroduce more sets or even just item pieces, maybe new jewelries after pre-bis to handle the huge gap of just grinding for war crests without any visible progress until Sovereign.

New Jewelries after RR60 could be especially good in my opinion as many careers just use Genesis pieces from 36 to 80 without any change, which is silly if you think about it.

[Nameless]

[/color]
New Jewelries after RR60 could be especially good in my opinion as many careers just use Genesis pieces from 36 to 80 without any change, which is silly if you think about it.

But that it is what most ppl want inst it. To gain bis gear at pre 40 which will be relevant for the endgame
For most non dps classes you are close to bis for weapon and jewelry slots when enter 40.
About jewelry instead adding new items just remove invader ring slot restriction and you will open tons of new set mixes, even new bis setups

[Florian90210]

I don't think that player retention so heavily depended on gear.
Tank and healer in conq is already worthy enough for pug bands.
If new player struggle to reach Vanq gear, I don't think he will play more to get to sov.
New players will always find another reason "why it's unfair and why I need more free stuff"

[saupreusse]

I don't think that player retention so heavily depended on gear.
Tank and healer in conq is already worthy enough for pug bands.
If new player struggle to reach Vanq gear, I don't think he will play more to get to sov.
New players will always find another reason "why it's unfair and why I need more free stuff"

I agree with you that player retention is not solely dependent on just gear.

But if I understand you correctly, you're saying that only tanks and healers are 'worthy enough' for pug warbands in conq gear? Does that mean (melee) DPS classes or other specs should just accept that they're not viable until they grind out higher gear like Vanq? That sounds like a pretty discouraging message to new players who are already being thrown into endgame RvR content against geared veterans.

Shouldn't the goal be to make sure all archetypes have some degree of viability when they hit max level? Otherwise, we’re not just gatekeeping gear - we’re gatekeeping roles, and that’s a fast track to losing potential players. It's not about 'free stuff,' it’s about giving people a chance to participate meaningfully and feel like their time is respected.

Please correct me if I misunderstood you.

Edit to answer hazmy and nameless:

[/color]
New Jewelries after RR60 could be especially good in my opinion as many careers just use Genesis pieces from 36 to 80 without any change, which is silly if you think about it.

But that it is what most ppl want inst it. To gain bis gear at pre 40 which will be relevant for the endgame
For most non dps classes you are close to bis for weapon and jewelry slots when enter 40.
About jewelry instead adding new items just remove invader ring slot restriction and you will open tons of new set mixes, even new bis setups

I believe Hazmy's intention was to provide players with more diverse jewelry and gear options, not necessarily to introduce new, even stronger bis items that would increase power creep.

[Magusar]

The proposal to do smoother progression itself is good. But in the current reality, as for me, there is another solution. Namely, increasing the rewards for scenarios - my prelast character, which I leveled up - was leveled only on scs. Despite the fact that I felt like an elephant in a china shop, used poushens and pies to increase renown - I entered T4 at rank 49. My last character, which I leveled up, which I went to rvr (delivery club and gank in empty zones between scs or without scs) was rank 60, despite the fact that I did not use rr poushens and pies.If i prefered zergs rr could be much bigger + a lot of crests . Not seriously.
Do you really think that a new character really wants to go to rvr in current state of it, where they will roll over it with a steamroller without an alternative and
"fight" 1 vs 3, 1 vs 5, 6, 7, etc., if it is not a wh/we or shaman/am or zergsurfer? Or pvp 1 vs 1, where you will be kicked by the same to a lesser extent dps wh/we and without alternatively erased by def we and shaman/am with 3-4 button spaming - also will be great exp(sarcasm). Regenerators of varying degrees also fall into the 1 vs 1 category. Separate tiers like it was on live would solve 80% of this problems, but i don't think its a good way. Moreover, this is already a topic for another thread.
So what I want to adjust:
1. Link the reward to the contribution(here its already but in the bud) and increase the reward for scs esp t1-t3 scs. It need for all scs, but start gradually it will be good too.
2. Drop required rr for vanq to 52-55.
3. Drop cost of vanq 15%-20%.
What is this for?
1. Smoother progression. Vanq set is more accessible.
2. A step towards solving overpopulation of the RVR.
3. A sane alternative for new characters.
4. At least some understanding of the game's mechanics and classes among beginners. Awareness of your own importance. And true importance.
5. Scs procs more often at middle tier.

[Magusar]

Speaking of rewards - too much exp in terms of rr received outside of rvr

[Florian90210]

Shouldn't the goal be to make sure all archetypes have some degree of viability when they hit max level? Otherwise, we’re not just gatekeeping gear - we’re gatekeeping roles, and that’s a fast track to losing potential players. It's not about 'free stuff,' it’s about giving people a chance to participate meaningfully and feel like their time is respected.

DPS classes always over-represented, so it's ok to have obstacle there. I care more about ranged vs melee dps issue.
Regarding time, like in every classic MMO you convert your time into your character's power. If people don't like this idea, there are countless session MOBA out there.

[Nameless]

The proposal to do smoother progression itself is good. But in the current reality, as for me, there is another solution. Namely, increasing the rewards for scenarios - my prelast character, which I leveled up - was leveled only on scs. Despite the fact that I felt like an elephant in a china shop, used poushens and pies to increase renown - I entered T4 at rank 49. My last character, which I leveled up, which I went to rvr (delivery club and gank in empty zones between scs or without scs) was rank 60, despite the fact that I did not use rr poushens and pies.If i prefered zergs rr could be much bigger + a lot of crests . Not seriously.
Do you really think that a new character really wants to go to rvr in current state of it, where they will roll over it with a steamroller without an alternative and
"fight" 1 vs 3, 1 vs 5, 6, 7, etc., if it is not a wh/we or shaman/am or zergsurfer? Or pvp 1 vs 1, where you will be kicked by the same to a lesser extent dps wh/we and without alternatively erased by def we and shaman/am with 3-4 button spaming - also will be great exp(sarcasm). Regenerators of varying degrees also fall into the 1 vs 1 category. Separate tiers like it was on live would solve 80% of this problems, but i don't think its a good way. Moreover, this is already a topic for another thread.
So what I want to adjust:
1. Link the reward to the contribution(here its already but in the bud) and increase the reward for scs esp t1-t3 scs. It need for all scs, but start gradually it will be good too.
2. Drop required rr for vanq to 52-55.
3. Drop cost of vanq 15%-20%.
What is this for?
1. Smoother progression. Vanq set is more accessible.
2. A step towards solving overpopulation of the RVR.
3. A sane alternative for new characters.
4. At least some understanding of the game's mechanics and classes among beginners. Awareness of your own importance. And true importance.
5. Scs procs more often at middle tier.

Scen farm indeed gives less renown and could be quite painful cos of latest changes but it is quite faster on crests gain, esp t4 ones when your got almost constant 4 min surrender.
So before reward tweak firstly make scen scene great again. Remove barriers, add guards, add guard kills renown and then if you want remove surrender all together.

Ps sorry about topic hijacking