Kotbs Arcing Swing suggestion and about 2h spec

[Alubert]

I completely do not understand why when comparing the effectiveness of tanks you compare their dmg.
Dmg of tanks is something secondary.
It's like comparing healers and comparing their dmg.
When I play Chosen I make a bit more dmg than Knight but this is due to the fact that Chosen is constructed in such a way that they want to have some utility (what Knight does requires absolutely nothing) they have to invest in crit chance (tactic, renown, weapon, liniment, I would be very happy to get rid of these offensive stats in favor of more defensive if I could, after all I lower my dmg using irreplaceable HC anyway)
Once they have a satisfactory crit chance then they have to use abilities that beat fast or multiple targets (Relentless or Rending Blade). You have to beat all the time and keep CP on your party (Knight of course doesn't have to do anything).
I would be very happy to give up on chosen Daemon Claw and all spirt dmg for the old CS.
You ask why I play mostly Chosen and not Knight.
Chosen is my main char which I hardly play at all.
It seems to me that you only have characters on one side.
Comparing the two classes I can confidently say that Chosen is just the younger brother of Knight. If Chosen received a stolen CS then I could say that they are equivalent classes.

What you point out mainly concerns solo play (yes chosen is very strong in this aspect of the game) but..
the game is not balanced 1v1 or 1vxxx. Certain classes or specs will always be more predisposed to this type of play.

The game should have an implanted warning if someone goes out to orvr solo.
"You go out at your own risk, some classes/specs are much stronger than others. If you go out solo reckon with it you have no right to cry on the forums."
Of course I have nothing against 1v1 balance but that will come good when our game is working properly in important aspects of the game.

[Sever1n]

Just take all 6 tanks, check their dps in st on doll. In gear that supposed to be bis for them. Teoretically st dmg of 2h crit tank should be 80% of st dps of offencive class, not burst, just amount of pressure that they do. Maybe bork and sm shoud be hit more harder they more offensive like 90%-100%. And then balance all outsiders to same value. Like chosen 90% more offencive, Kotbs 80% more defensive, but compensate dif in other things like tactics. Problem is that i dont even know what is considered bis for st tank, it was warlord before but with nerf its like sov crit staking? But clearly situation where chosens hit 1k spirit channel, and kotbs 300 isnt ok. That's why ws change and warlord set nerf was very bad and hited dps tanks hard. Why kotbs is only tank that cannot shred armor/resist of his type of dmg, is also very weird and unfair towards them. So let sm and cho be magic dmg users, but other tank shoud have same instruments to deal dmg and be usefull for assist dps, not be just buff or debuff bots. If someone have dps cho and knigth, measure dmg on doll, and we easily will see whos the big brother. Ideally that shoud be done for all tanks. Then we can discuss something, instead off spaming heresy accusations.

[Battlefield]

I completely do not understand why when comparing the effectiveness of tanks you compare their dmg.
Dmg of tanks is something secondary.
It's like comparing healers and comparing their dmg.
When I play Chosen I make a bit more dmg than Knight but this is due to the fact that Chosen is constructed in such a way that they want to have some utility (what Knight does requires absolutely nothing) they have to invest in crit chance (tactic, renown, weapon, liniment, I would be very happy to get rid of these offensive stats in favor of more defensive if I could, after all I lower my dmg using irreplaceable HC anyway)
Once they have a satisfactory crit chance then they have to use abilities that beat fast or multiple targets (Relentless or Rending Blade). You have to beat all the time and keep CP on your party (Knight of course doesn't have to do anything).
I would be very happy to give up on chosen Daemon Claw and all spirt dmg for the old CS.
You ask why I play mostly Chosen and not Knight.
Chosen is my main char which I hardly play at all.
It seems to me that you only have characters on one side.
Comparing the two classes I can confidently say that Chosen is just the younger brother of Knight. If Chosen received a stolen CS then I could say that they are equivalent classes.

What you point out mainly concerns solo play (yes chosen is very strong in this aspect of the game) but..
the game is not balanced 1v1 or 1vxxx. Certain classes or specs will always be more predisposed to this type of play.

The game should have an implanted warning if someone goes out to orvr solo.
"You go out at your own risk, some classes/specs are much stronger than others. If you go out solo reckon with it you have no right to cry on the forums."
Of course I have nothing against 1v1 balance but that will come good when our game is working properly in important aspects of the game.

Because this game is all about damage, healing and CC, Chosen can deal 1.5x more direct damage sometimes even 2 times than Kotbs because of magical damage which has much less mitigation than physical damage.

I'm not only talking about damage but also about defense, why open up and be more vulnerable without a solid increase in damage or without having a save ability?

In short, the two-handed Kotbs is one of the most nerfed classes in the game, essentially humiliated. So add restriction to the Overpowering Swing tactic requires Great Weapon and let the Arcing Swing be used with a shield or add to the Overpowering Swing tactic when wielding 2h weapon Myrmydia's Fury and Sunder abilities deal elemetal damage. About nerfs It is considering Vanilla, don't tell only about private server updates and then rollbacks.

[Sever1n]

Its 1 magic tank per faction. Sm/cho bork bg / ib kotbs. From my perspective, would be just give kotbs arm shred skill (bork have 2 shreds, armor and corp) and boost mirmidia fury penetration so they can deal dmg compared to other tanks. Maybe do same treatment with other ws reliant tanks, so they dont need build 2 stats to deal dmg, while sm and cho build 1. Just stick str talis and go full crit.

[Battlefield]

Its 1 magic tank per faction. Sm/cho bork bg / ib kotbs. From my perspective, would be just give kotbs arm shred skill (bork have 2 shreds, armor and corp) and boost mirmidia fury penetration so they can deal dmg compared to other tanks. Maybe do same treatment with other ws reliant tanks, so they dont need build 2 stats to deal dmg, while sm and cho build 1. Just stick str talis and go full crit.

Someone said right here before that Destruction has 3 classes with magic attacks and Order has 2 or 2.5 (not including Shaman/AM and Zealot/RP).

Give this missing half to Kotbs, he should have fire magical attacks otherwise why is there a Sun in its name...

According to the lore, Kotbs should drive away evil with fire

[Sever1n]

Im just looking on it from rolepaying, sm are saphery witchers, chosens literally conduits of tzinchs farts. Kotbs is more like knigth with some latent pyrotechnics, but live flamethrower is bw. Its no big dif what type of dmg he will be doing, its just amount of this dmg should be reasonable. Its like 8 pages, and we still dont know that amount btw, and cant compare it.

[ShadowWar]

I'm one of those stubborn veterans who have been around for quite a while, and prefers to play the 2h KotBS. I've done a lot of experimenting over time, and it's about speccing for what you're doing.

The conversation here has been accurate in a lot of ways, and it feels like people are kind of talking around each other. Their is no reason to bring more than one 2h knight to a warband for ORvR play. That's 100% true. You want your arcing swing, and the crit chance it brings with tactic, and the wounds debuff that comes with it. Those are really big, it also gives you a bit more flexibility in composition as well, so you can stagger auras you usually spec into if you end up with double knights in a group. Don't sleep on staggering impact either, it's better than you give it credit.

As a BiS 2h knight, you can soloroam, but you won't be as effective as pretty much anything else, and you really have to outplay and outgear everyone you run up against. I think most WE's and Shamans that find me solo in the lakes are surprised at the challenge, and how often I come out on top. If you are going to solo roam though, don't hesitate to use your pots. You are a tank, use your strengths, and outlasting them is a BIG one.

The Chosen just does a lot of the things that knight does to, and it does most of them almost just as well, or close to. It also brings other tools to compensate in the areas they are lacking in comparison. The inverse isn't true, and people are ALWAYS going to compare them, because they are aura tanks. In my head, as far as the role they fill, I feel like the BG and the KotBS are more similar, super tanky, or a walking debuff bot.

I'd like to see the KotBS improved a lot. There are two skills that I just *NEVER* use that I can think of off the top of my head: Perserverance, and Precision strike. You should always be running an armor pot, and the difference between the weakest pot and skill is minimal, and the AP is pointless with other skills available to us, and the ease of getting AP pots.

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head. This lets you stay alive long enough to stay on your guard, and spread your debuffs around.

That said, if you gave me the option to copy/paste the abilities of a chosen from Destro over to Order on the knight, I'd probably take it. I don't think the inverse is true. Chosen just performs better in more play styles with less difficulty.

[Farrul]

I completely do not understand why when comparing the effectiveness of tanks you compare their dmg.
Dmg of tanks is something secondary.
It's like comparing healers and comparing their dmg.

Because there are different specialisations for each class in this game, why is that so hard to comprehend?

Hence when you compare the dps of the ''tank'' or the ''healer'' you do it because each one of them has at least one offensive focused specialisation or a hybrid tree being something of each. Then dps comparison becomes relevant, logically.

I don't think anyone is comparing the dps of SnB knight to the dps of SnB Chosen aka the ''defensive specs''. But when it comes to 2H it is relevant because with a Greatsword the players expect to do damage, this has been true for all rpg games, you put on a big stick and leave the shield behind it is supposed to deal damage.

That's why mythic(original devs, the ones who created this game) like any other MMO company created this game with different specializations in mind, some pure in their role others are not and goes into the territory of a different archetype.

This is also true for RoR expect the devs here messed this up when it comes to the Kotbs, that's what is being pointed out here.
Hence knight had things like Mighty soul etc.

P.S. And yes comparing healers dps in their respective dps trees is relevant as well. When the Archmage goes for the '' path of Asuryan'' it is no longer ''healer'' like the Archmage that goes '' the path of Isha''. They play totally different and do have different gameplay.

[Nekkma]

I completely do not understand why when comparing the effectiveness of tanks you compare their dmg.
Dmg of tanks is something secondary.
It's like comparing healers and comparing their dmg.

Because there are different specialisations for each class in this game, why is that so hard to comprehend?

Hence when you compare the dps of the ''tank'' or the ''healer'' you do it because each one of them has at least one offensive focused specialisation or a hybrid tree being something of each. Then dps comparison becomes relevant, logically.

I don't think anyone is comparing the dps of SnB knight to the dps of SnB Chosen aka the ''defensive specs''. But when it comes to 2H it is relevant because with a Greatsword the players expect to do damage, this has been true for all rpg games, you put on a big stick and leave the shield behind it is supposed to deal damage.

That's why mythic(original devs, the ones who created this game) like any other MMO company created this game with different specializations in mind, some pure in their role others are not and goes into the territory of a different archetype.

This is also true for RoR expect the devs here messed this up when it comes to the Kotbs, that's what is being pointed out here.
Hence knight had things like Mighty soul etc.

P.S. And yes comparing healers dps in their respective dps trees is relevant as well. When the Archmage goes for the '' path of Asuryan'' it is no longer ''healer'' like the Archmage that goes '' the path of Isha''. They play totally different and do have different gameplay.

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

[leftayparxoun]

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head.

The Coordination proc (https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/6038) and the Reactionary proc from Nightless https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/10716 both are listed as Non-stacking. Are you sure the bug exists currently?