[BG] Usefulness of various buffs

[Mvl130]

I am new to Blackguard and trying to figure out which buff abilities are worth being used regularly :

- Force of Fury : seemed to me like a very strong buff, then I remembered that this sort of abilities usually do not stack with potions, so the armor it will give is actually much lower than I had anticipated

- Feeding on Weakness : depending on how much points are invested in the middle mastery tree, it's around 100 toughness bonus, which does not seem to make any difference (around -20 damage); the healing is unnoticeable

- Elite Training : sometimes can be helpful but the stacks can disappear very quickly ; the AP regen seems very weak

- Brutal Smash : strength bonus probably does not stack with strength potions either, and healers seem to do just fine without the willpower bonus applied on them, so I'm also unsure about the overral usefulness of this ability

- For the Witch King : can be useful I imagine, I don't kow much about other classes toolkits and how well do they benefit from that

I don't think there's anything beyond that, which seems to be rather limited, unless there are things I am missing or misunderstanding

[Illuminati]

It's a good highlight of the weakness of the class (e.g. having to actively manage through abilities, the debuff of an enemy vs the buff of a player(s).

Tis why Chosen Auras are easier to manage.

That's why I focus more on the other utilities that BG has to offer, Wounds Debuff, Chance to be Crit, Armor Debuff, etc. with my GCDs. The crappy part is you have to do some of those abilities you mentioned to build/maintain hate.

[BluIzLucky]

Brutal Smash is 1200 stats at 13p (you + the one you DP), used on a healer with 570 wp the 480 will buff them to 1050 wp and BE worth about +28% healing and +15% Disrupt.

Elite Training is more powerful the fewer enemies, 1v1 it's brutal but even in 6 mans the effect is very noticeable.

FoW again with Terrified Foe is equal to Rugged which I think is still a highly rated tactic.

And you can run stuff like Boundless Insight to buff stats that your abilities don't.

All that said, I do as Illuminati, a lot of classes suffer from this, but BG especially since it's all Single target with same power as other class has AoE lol.

[Avernus]

I am new to Blackguard and trying to figure out which buff abilities are worth being used regularly :

1. - Force of Fury : seemed to me like a very strong buff, then I remembered that this sort of abilities usually do not stack with potions, so the armor it will give is actually much lower than I had anticipated

2. - Feeding on Weakness : depending on how much points are invested in the middle mastery tree, it's around 100 toughness bonus, which does not seem to make any difference (around -20 damage); the healing is unnoticeable

3. - Elite Training : sometimes can be helpful but the stacks can disappear very quickly ; the AP regen seems very weak

4. - Brutal Smash : strength bonus probably does not stack with strength potions either, and healers seem to do just fine without the willpower bonus applied on them, so I'm also unsure about the overral usefulness of this ability

5. - For the Witch King : can be useful I imagine, I don't kow much about other classes toolkits and how well do they benefit from that

I don't think there's anything beyond that, which seems to be rather limited, unless there are things I am missing or misunderstanding

1. The main reason you're using this is to reduce your chance to recieve a crit. Not like you'll be using this skill anyway, unless you want to play meatshield guardbot while losing your signature utility abilities (Crimson Death and WW...err, For Malekith). Yes, You can pick it and 1 from those 2 abilities but usually its not worth it.

2. Its your selfbuff in case no one buffed your toughness and a bit of self heal when it counts (gank/smallscale etc). It can be very good while you are under cooldown reduction buff (and, since you you are possible source of this buff...). Assuming you are actually able to deal some damage, obviously.

3. Your save button for 2h. Not gonna help much but still useful. Very good against "punt/you're dead" tactic from BW/tank punt combo. Can be used to save your teammate - assuming that you're not sleeping on the job.

4. It's your default str buff. Yes, no stacking. Still, its a part of your rotation. Very good willpower buff for your healer. Worst case, its still a bit of disrupt for you and your "protected" ally.

5. It's very useful thing indeed. For example, melee squigs and dps healer shamans are addicted to this.

[Panzerkasper]

I have played the BG very extensively in the past few months and yes, his biggest weakness is his lack of group utility in a defensive way. His debuff capabilities are very strong on the other hand, that's why I don't see much sense of him as an SnB tank in WB fights. All you do there basically is spamming HtL and FtWK.

BG is very good in smallscale fights though and best paired with a Ch or BO.
AP Debuffs with Choking Fury and Chrushing Anger, ~1100 Armor debuff, Wounds debuff, Crit debuff, avoidence debuff, tough debuff is a great toolset.

1. FoF is in a weird spot, I personally think it's not good enough to spec for it, since FtWK/CD are stronger, but I can see a reason to go for it even with 2h

2. FoW is probably one of the weakest abilities BG has. I think the tough buff should be increased (a single target buff should always be worth more then an aoe buff) and the healing value should also be increased (atleast double the % values) or give it some formula like the life tab healings of DoK/WP with a baseline heal and a bonus from damage.

3. Elite training is a great tool, but need great awareness. It is a counter to a BW rotation if times correctly, you can disrupt the kicks from healers that they use when they get out of a kd, you can have 4 guaranteed parries for when you expect to be punted away from your guard target.
It has it's use, but I think the cd is too long and should be 20-25sec.

4. Brutal Smash: The Str buff allows you to use other potions then Str and the Willpower buff is huge for a healer. Most healers with a better gear dont use WP potions anyways. I don't see a big problem with this skill as it is, only maybe incease the Str value that it gives a bit.

5. FtWK is only good, when you build your grp around it, otherwise its wasted and it only enables the healers to cleanse on cd. I think going for FoF or CD is the better choice imho.

I think the BG needs some tweaks to give him a bit more grp utility. Maybe like this:

Feeding on Weakness: Castable buff for your grp, buffs Tough (set value) and WP (based on hate), 10s duration, 10s cd and debuffs enemies tough in 25feet around you.

Brutal smash: On hit, buff Str and heal yourself and your dark protector target (50%, 100%, 150% of damage dealt)

Shield of Rage should get a bit higher absorb value on yourself and your DP, also give your grp an abso bubble for half the value.

Just some ideas out of the blue...


PS: Besides that, I think the DE racial tactics need a huge rework. Especially Bathing in Blood.

[ShadowWar]

I don't have extensive playtime on the Blackguard, I'm at only rr48/49 (it's been a long time). Why is soul-killer/mind-killer not used more often? I get that the BG also seems to require being in full Sov to really come on line in a nasty way, much like DPS warrior priests, but that combo with FtWK and Crimson Doom seems like you would be an absolute nightmare in any WB fight where you're burning down the enemy healers. Pair it with choking fury, and every AM/RP would have curse your existence I think.

Does the gear not support the playstyle? Or is it just not as effective as it seems like it should be in my head because of destro party composition. Would love to hear the hows and whys of it.

[leftayparxoun]

I don't have extensive playtime on the Blackguard, I'm at only rr48/49 (it's been a long time). Why is soul-killer/mind-killer not used more often? I get that the BG also seems to require being in full Sov to really come on line in a nasty way, much like DPS warrior priests, but that combo with FtWK and Crimson Doom seems like you would be an absolute nightmare in any WB fight where you're burning down the enemy healers. Pair it with choking fury, and every AM/RP would have curse your existence I think.

Does the gear not support the playstyle? Or is it just not as effective as it seems like it should be in my head because of destro party composition. Would love to hear the hows and whys of it.

Crimson Death requires a 2h weapon.
While FTWK does not have any weapon requirements, if you go 13 points in both left and right tree (to pick it up on 2h BG), you have to skip the parry tactic from middle tree (Bg doesn't have any other parry buffs --> extreme guard damage)

On SnB builds now, you can spec FTWK somewhat comfortably from rr60 onwards. On Sov+2 for example your build will look something like this:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,9374,9359

If you want to spec Mind Killer or Choking Fury, you will have to give up 1 or 2 of the Parry/Block/Disrupt tactics, the AOE slow, Elite Training or the Block channel.

The most common trade here is Choking Fury instead of Block channel, but CF has 20 seconds cooldown so it doesn't see that much use either. Especially with how many things you can press as a BG.
Soul Killer is nice, but you will have to drop a tactic for it (droppin Disrupt one makes Endless Pursuit a lot weaker, while dropping the Parry or Block one sacrifices a ton of survivability. Have seen people run it + Rugged instead of Disrupt + Endless Pursuit but yeah. It also requires you to press even more buttons.
While outgoing heal debuffs are missing from Destro toolkit especially in orvr, relying on BGs to proc them is very clunky.