Order N/A time RVR

[leftayparxoun]

Yeah its quite the opposite, with FTWK a geared MSH has higher 360 aoe dps than WL(on paper at least), while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

One thing to note is that while MSH's sustained AOE dps over the fight will be higher than WL (if both have access to a CD reducer), its burst DPS (their channel damage) will still be lower by ~30% if the WL has access to Primal Fury or by ~10% if it doesn't.

...while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

I would also argue that while Bad Gas is one of, if not, the strongest debuff in the game. However, besides that, the MSH doesn't have much utility to offer.
Yes, you can do Pierce Defenses but it has fallen out of relevancy since the October strikethrough system changes. Yes, you can also slow people with a backflip Sticky Squigz or Squig Goo M2, but those things can be found elsewhere in the same faction.

In comparison WL offers both a 360 AOE interrupt that you can never have enough of and potentially also an incoming heal debuff proc on Fortress weapon, which is something that Order otherwise struggles to apply in an AOE manner.

While I would say that MSH has better utility (purely based on how good Bag Gas is), I wouldn't go as far as saying it has more utility than WL.

[Illuminati]

Too many gated skills on that class, also it only does 50% or so of the damage as the WL attack. Could be wrong, been awhile since i played mine.

It's something like that - the Entropy & Chaos math guy probably has the exact %.

Yeah its quite the opposite, with FTWK a geared MSH has higher 360 aoe dps than WL(on paper at least), while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

Unfortunately, mSH doesn't have access to a heal debuff weapon nor a heal debuff. I would argue the cooldown increase on the mSH being only within 25' is not as good and is matched by Slayers. What utility are you referring to? They should have kept the cooldown decrease on Choppa instead of moving it to the ever rare spec'd BG that I never see in every party of a WB...

[Illuminati]

Yeah its quite the opposite, with FTWK a geared MSH has higher 360 aoe dps than WL(on paper at least), while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

One thing to note is that while MSH's sustained AOE dps over the fight will be higher than WL (if both have access to a CD reducer), its burst DPS (their channel damage) will still be lower by ~30% if the WL has access to Primal Fury or by ~10% if it doesn't.

...while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

I would also argue that while Bad Gas is one of, if not, the strongest debuff in the game. However, besides that, the MSH doesn't have much utility to offer.
Yes, you can do Pierce Defenses but it has fallen out of relevancy since the October strikethrough system changes. Yes, you can also slow people with a backflip Sticky Squigz or Squig Goo M2, but those things can be found elsewhere in the same faction.

In comparison WL offers both a 360 AOE interrupt that you can never have enough of and potentially also an incoming heal debuff proc on Fortress weapon, which is something that Order otherwise struggles to apply in an AOE manner.

While I would say that MSH has better utility (purely based on how good Bag Gas is), I wouldn't go as far as saying it has more utility than WL.

You beat me to it =), was thinking, "What utility is he talking about?" the interrupt is huge and bad gas is 25'. I think we forget how damn small that radius is.

[Akalukz]

I think the playerbase speaks for itself to a degree. IF mSH were equal in dps to the WL, there would be as many or more. Destro warbands want what, 1 mSH MAYBE 2. That's still one more than magus

[Illuminati]

I think the playerbase speaks for itself to a degree. IF mSH were equal in dps to the WL, there would be as many or more. Destro warbands want what, 1 mSH MAYBE 2. That's still one more than magus

Agreed 100%. The dev team's previous incarnation of the mSH was much better and more of an equal to the current WL mess.

-70% speed outta my way, interrupt, etc.

Either buff the marauder or bring mSH up. Slayer/Chopppa need their mechanic tweaked but the damage/utility is probably in an ok space.

When is the DPS balance pass? =p

The key to magus viability is what we had on live, a really good pull (collision haha!) Drow/Neutrino wrecked a whole server during the ol' days of single BWs blowing up entire wbs.

[Akalukz]

I think the playerbase speaks for itself to a degree. IF mSH were equal in dps to the WL, there would be as many or more. Destro warbands want what, 1 mSH MAYBE 2. That's still one more than magus

Spoiler:

Agreed 100%. The dev team's previous incarnation of the mSH was much better and more of an equal to the current WL mess.

-70% speed outta my way, interrupt, etc.

Either buff the marauder or bring mSH up. Slayer/Chopppa need their mechanic tweaked but the damage/utility is probably in an ok space.

When is the DPS balance pass? =p

The key to magus viability is what we had on live, a really good pull (collision haha!) Drow/Neutrino wrecked a whole server during the ol' days of single BWs blowing up entire wbs.

Ahh the good old days. Nerf magus

[Scragmuncher]

Yeah its quite the opposite, with FTWK a geared MSH has higher 360 aoe dps than WL(on paper at least), while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

One thing to note is that while MSH's sustained AOE dps over the fight will be higher than WL (if both have access to a CD reducer), its burst DPS (their channel damage) will still be lower by ~30% if the WL has access to Primal Fury or by ~10% if it doesn't.

...while also having access to far more utility and one of the strongest debuffs in the game.

I would also argue that while Bad Gas is one of, if not, the strongest debuff in the game. However, besides that, the MSH doesn't have much utility to offer.
Yes, you can do Pierce Defenses but it has fallen out of relevancy since the October strikethrough system changes. Yes, you can also slow people with a backflip Sticky Squigz or Squig Goo M2, but those things can be found elsewhere in the same faction.

In comparison WL offers both a 360 AOE interrupt that you can never have enough of and potentially also an incoming heal debuff proc on Fortress weapon, which is something that Order otherwise struggles to apply in an AOE manner.

While I would say that MSH has better utility (purely based on how good Bag Gas is), I wouldn't go as far as saying it has more utility than WL.

You beat me to it =), was thinking, "What utility is he talking about?" the interrupt is huge and bad gas is 25'. I think we forget how damn small that radius is.

For WB leading, pretty much all of it. The pounce is great, the pounce back is huge, especially against WL pulls and punts.
Having access to Ambush m2 as a mele character is just awesome, gives you so much control on when to engage. On top of that you have a mirror of the WL m2 as your m3, which is one one of the strongest dps morales in the game.
The charge can be absolutely crazy for stopping whole groups from going to where they want to be. Same as the charge all mdps get but with a crazy extra utility. Easy to counter though of course.
Having an aoe punt as a mdps is also kinda crazy, though obviously you have to be very carefull with it.
Yes, squig gas has a low range, but it is still extremely strong. Always great to see WP's start to panic as soon as you hit them with it and they can no longer aoe heal spam XD

[leondre25]

this thread got derailed so hard.
nice pvp vid. keep em coming.
maybe avoid mentioning NA time.