Why the GCD Change?

[Aethilmar]

Every body know 1.5 is garbage if they wanted to balance it they had too boost every melee dps ability at least 15%. No point getting better at macro when the game is freaking slow. Balance is pretty much around :If you got dmg that does passive dmg that's the meta. (DOTS, PETS , AUTO ATTACK etc)
There really no way to improve as a player i cant really press buttom faster (using differant abilities at the right moment like pots, detaunt switch target punt etc) and have better faster reaction time because the game is too slow.

You are defining better as being able to react faster and write better macros. That is one way to go.

Another way is thinking ahead a bit and knowing what you opponent might try to do next and how to counter it.

What I'm getting out of this thread is there are bunch of DPS players that want to be able to gank faster instead of using team work to make the dream work. If you have ever been on the receiving end of a good six-man, the burst is plenty high in almost every situation except maybe ranked.

Anyway, 1.5 GCD is fine. Regardless of all the other stuff mentioned in the thread, no way it will change before they finish the mdps stuff anyway and then that will take months to settle out.

While I get what you are hinting at I also feel like its incorrect, there is no such thing as thinking ahead and knowing what your opponent might try next to counter it. Because if you hold your GCD Anticipating a channel to interrupt it, youre losing out on way too much tempo so that even if you interrupt the channel youre still going to lose the damage race, theres literally only one thing that you could ever "Look ahead" and thats detaunting a timestamp burst but thats situational only to casters.

There is no real outplay in this game, its not world of warcraft where CCs have diminshing returns & you have like 10 different defensives on 3 minute CDs to survive stun windows, you rely ONLY on a detaunt which is vastly more ineffective than any other MMO Defensive, and you have CC Break trinkets or abilities that prevent root displacement if timed correctly etc, the only thing you can really do in this game would be to give people the ability to react quickly. And that only works if either the GCD Is lowered, or a lot of things are put off the GCD to begin with.

Heh. Most of my play solo roaming is "thinking ahead" with battles pre-decided barring some interruption (which makes things interesting). Here are some examples from 2H SM play:

1) Fighting WE you are always trying to keep them from your back and from positioning from a safety self-punt so they can't escape (assuming they want to ofc).
2) Fighting SH you need to close the gap before they can dismount you and get a snare on them. If they do snare you before you do them then try to disengage. If they don't you stay on them and try to put a favorable direction on their self punt so you can close the distance again and GG.
3) Fighting 2H Chosen: Both of you are trying to get a good interrupt on melee channels and/or break the cone to avoid taking all the damage. The one who does this better will probably win.

I have other ones related to my various characters. Bottom line is there are plenty of opportunities for anticipating how your opponents are going to fight you. And, yes, I have been killed by GCD waiting for my healing to become available. You know whose fault that was? Me for not paying attention and anticipating the incoming damage.

I get that some folks like reactionary gameplay and that's fine. But lets not pretend that without it the "thinking" part of the game is hindered as well. It exists and it makes it even more important.

[yoluigi]

Basically right now thinking ahead is playing SM,SW,AM, WL , WH maybe Runie and destro is WE (600 absorb even stronger now with gcd) Shaman, Squig, magus, Chosen, Dps Zeolot.

Anyway man we stuck with this GCD now.

[saiho]

You are defining better as being able to react faster and write better macros. That is one way to go.

Another way is thinking ahead a bit and knowing what you opponent might try to do next and how to counter it.

What I'm getting out of this thread is there are bunch of DPS players that want to be able to gank faster instead of using team work to make the dream work. If you have ever been on the receiving end of a good six-man, the burst is plenty high in almost every situation except maybe ranked.

Anyway, 1.5 GCD is fine. Regardless of all the other stuff mentioned in the thread, no way it will change before they finish the mdps stuff anyway and then that will take months to settle out.

While I get what you are hinting at I also feel like its incorrect, there is no such thing as thinking ahead and knowing what your opponent might try next to counter it. Because if you hold your GCD Anticipating a channel to interrupt it, youre losing out on way too much tempo so that even if you interrupt the channel youre still going to lose the damage race, theres literally only one thing that you could ever "Look ahead" and thats detaunting a timestamp burst but thats situational only to casters.

There is no real outplay in this game, its not world of warcraft where CCs have diminshing returns & you have like 10 different defensives on 3 minute CDs to survive stun windows, you rely ONLY on a detaunt which is vastly more ineffective than any other MMO Defensive, and you have CC Break trinkets or abilities that prevent root displacement if timed correctly etc, the only thing you can really do in this game would be to give people the ability to react quickly. And that only works if either the GCD Is lowered, or a lot of things are put off the GCD to begin with.

Heh. Most of my play solo roaming is "thinking ahead" with battles pre-decided barring some interruption (which makes things interesting). Here are some examples from 2H SM play:

1) Fighting WE you are always trying to keep them from your back and from positioning from a safety self-punt so they can't escape (assuming they want to ofc).
2) Fighting SH you need to close the gap before they can dismount you and get a snare on them. If they do snare you before you do them then try to disengage. If they don't you stay on them and try to put a favorable direction on their self punt so you can close the distance again and GG.
3) Fighting 2H Chosen: Both of you are trying to get a good interrupt on melee channels and/or break the cone to avoid taking all the damage. The one who does this better will probably win.

I have other ones related to my various characters. Bottom line is there are plenty of opportunities for anticipating how your opponents are going to fight you. And, yes, I have been killed by GCD waiting for my healing to become available. You know whose fault that was? Me for not paying attention and anticipating the incoming damage.

I get that some folks like reactionary gameplay and that's fine. But lets not pretend that without it the "thinking" part of the game is hindered as well. It exists and it makes it even more important.

None of the things you really mentioned are thinking ahead, keeping people from your back is just a gameplay standpoint that goes for everything in the game not exclusively WE's & has absolutely nothing to with GCDs. Closing the gap on ranged targets as a melee is also just a general thing in any PvP game its not a counter strategy exclusive to a SH, however on this game its also pure RNG as I got 10+ clips of me shooting ppl running at me with mounts for like 5-10 Attacks and they still arent dismounted so I lost to RNG not to thinkingn ahead.

as for fighting classes with channels, if you hold your GCD for 1-2 GCDs anticipating a DOK Channel so you can instantly interrupt them before they get healing ticks off youre just gonna lose anyways because he will just take the free damage on you, and if you dont interrupt it immediately more often than not you will lose unless you can kite them because just a few ticks of it can give them near full hp on crits, having off gcds or lower GCD would make this a non issue because if you had fast enough reactions to animations you could punish it.


Thinking ahead like I mentioned earlier is more akin to things in WoW PvP, anticipating warlock teleport cooldowns, timing your defensives with potential burst windows (we only have have detaunt which is on the GCD and weak af comparatively) or thinking which CC youre going to use trinket on to not get chain CC'd, what theyve used etc. Currently theres nothing significant enough in this game to think ahead about, and no significant way to outplay someone enough to actually gain benefit from thinking ahead. Biggest "thinking ahead" is knowing when they can use morales by looking at your own morales. Or saving your VoN Window on SW to utilize your KD when a Mara goes for pull, or using BW Silence on Mara pull, however the BW one is pure reactionary and the only thinking ahead is the SW one really, but once again doesnt change if its 1.1 or 1.5 gcd youd make the same play.

Pretty much everything you mentioned still goes the same with a lower GCD or more off-GCD abilities. It has no impact on wether its a longer or slower GCD because its mostly all just basic gameplay youd utilize in any pvp not even exclusive to Warhammer.

[Aethilmar]

While I get what you are hinting at I also feel like its incorrect, there is no such thing as thinking ahead and knowing what your opponent might try next to counter it. Because if you hold your GCD Anticipating a channel to interrupt it, youre losing out on way too much tempo so that even if you interrupt the channel youre still going to lose the damage race, theres literally only one thing that you could ever "Look ahead" and thats detaunting a timestamp burst but thats situational only to casters.

There is no real outplay in this game, its not world of warcraft where CCs have diminshing returns & you have like 10 different defensives on 3 minute CDs to survive stun windows, you rely ONLY on a detaunt which is vastly more ineffective than any other MMO Defensive, and you have CC Break trinkets or abilities that prevent root displacement if timed correctly etc, the only thing you can really do in this game would be to give people the ability to react quickly. And that only works if either the GCD Is lowered, or a lot of things are put off the GCD to begin with.

Heh. Most of my play solo roaming is "thinking ahead" with battles pre-decided barring some interruption (which makes things interesting). Here are some examples from 2H SM play:

1) Fighting WE you are always trying to keep them from your back and from positioning from a safety self-punt so they can't escape (assuming they want to ofc).
2) Fighting SH you need to close the gap before they can dismount you and get a snare on them. If they do snare you before you do them then try to disengage. If they don't you stay on them and try to put a favorable direction on their self punt so you can close the distance again and GG.
3) Fighting 2H Chosen: Both of you are trying to get a good interrupt on melee channels and/or break the cone to avoid taking all the damage. The one who does this better will probably win.

I have other ones related to my various characters. Bottom line is there are plenty of opportunities for anticipating how your opponents are going to fight you. And, yes, I have been killed by GCD waiting for my healing to become available. You know whose fault that was? Me for not paying attention and anticipating the incoming damage.

I get that some folks like reactionary gameplay and that's fine. But lets not pretend that without it the "thinking" part of the game is hindered as well. It exists and it makes it even more important.

None of the things you really mentioned are thinking ahead, keeping people from your back is just a gameplay standpoint that goes for everything in the game not exclusively WE's & has absolutely nothing to with GCDs. Closing the gap on ranged targets as a melee is also just a general thing in any PvP game its not a counter strategy exclusive to a SH, however on this game its also pure RNG as I got 10+ clips of me shooting ppl running at me with mounts for like 5-10 Attacks and they still arent dismounted so I lost to RNG not to thinkingn ahead.

as for fighting classes with channels, if you hold your GCD for 1-2 GCDs anticipating a DOK Channel so you can instantly interrupt them before they get healing ticks off youre just gonna lose anyways because he will just take the free damage on you, and if you dont interrupt it immediately more often than not you will lose unless you can kite them because just a few ticks of it can give them near full hp on crits, having off gcds or lower GCD would make this a non issue because if you had fast enough reactions to animations you could punish it.


Thinking ahead like I mentioned earlier is more akin to things in WoW PvP, anticipating warlock teleport cooldowns, timing your defensives with potential burst windows (we only have have detaunt which is on the GCD and weak af comparatively) or thinking which CC youre going to use trinket on to not get chain CC'd, what theyve used etc. Currently theres nothing significant enough in this game to think ahead about, and no significant way to outplay someone enough to actually gain benefit from thinking ahead. Biggest "thinking ahead" is knowing when they can use morales by looking at your own morales. Or saving your VoN Window on SW to utilize your KD when a Mara goes for pull, or using BW Silence on Mara pull, however the BW one is pure reactionary and the only thinking ahead is the SW one really, but once again doesnt change if its 1.1 or 1.5 gcd youd make the same play.

Pretty much everything you mentioned still goes the same with a lower GCD or more off-GCD abilities. It has no impact on wether its a longer or slower GCD because its mostly all just basic gameplay youd utilize in any pvp not even exclusive to Warhammer.

Eh. I'll give you the general play being more-or-less the same with lower GCD. I was simply responding to your assertion there is no "outplay" as you call it in this game. Its there. But its not WoW-style and hopefully never will be.

However, having potions and consumables on GCD (whatever the time) very truly does make it a choice for for anticipation of what the enemy is going to do next. My choice to take time to drop one or two heal pots very much depends on my relative health, their relative health, my available CC, what CC I know my enemy has available and whether or where I think their morales are currently at. If that isn't thinking ahead then I guess we just have an irreconcilably different understanding of the term.

[saiho]

Heh. Most of my play solo roaming is "thinking ahead" with battles pre-decided barring some interruption (which makes things interesting). Here are some examples from 2H SM play:

1) Fighting WE you are always trying to keep them from your back and from positioning from a safety self-punt so they can't escape (assuming they want to ofc).
2) Fighting SH you need to close the gap before they can dismount you and get a snare on them. If they do snare you before you do them then try to disengage. If they don't you stay on them and try to put a favorable direction on their self punt so you can close the distance again and GG.
3) Fighting 2H Chosen: Both of you are trying to get a good interrupt on melee channels and/or break the cone to avoid taking all the damage. The one who does this better will probably win.

I have other ones related to my various characters. Bottom line is there are plenty of opportunities for anticipating how your opponents are going to fight you. And, yes, I have been killed by GCD waiting for my healing to become available. You know whose fault that was? Me for not paying attention and anticipating the incoming damage.

I get that some folks like reactionary gameplay and that's fine. But lets not pretend that without it the "thinking" part of the game is hindered as well. It exists and it makes it even more important.

None of the things you really mentioned are thinking ahead, keeping people from your back is just a gameplay standpoint that goes for everything in the game not exclusively WE's & has absolutely nothing to with GCDs. Closing the gap on ranged targets as a melee is also just a general thing in any PvP game its not a counter strategy exclusive to a SH, however on this game its also pure RNG as I got 10+ clips of me shooting ppl running at me with mounts for like 5-10 Attacks and they still arent dismounted so I lost to RNG not to thinkingn ahead.

as for fighting classes with channels, if you hold your GCD for 1-2 GCDs anticipating a DOK Channel so you can instantly interrupt them before they get healing ticks off youre just gonna lose anyways because he will just take the free damage on you, and if you dont interrupt it immediately more often than not you will lose unless you can kite them because just a few ticks of it can give them near full hp on crits, having off gcds or lower GCD would make this a non issue because if you had fast enough reactions to animations you could punish it.


Thinking ahead like I mentioned earlier is more akin to things in WoW PvP, anticipating warlock teleport cooldowns, timing your defensives with potential burst windows (we only have have detaunt which is on the GCD and weak af comparatively) or thinking which CC youre going to use trinket on to not get chain CC'd, what theyve used etc. Currently theres nothing significant enough in this game to think ahead about, and no significant way to outplay someone enough to actually gain benefit from thinking ahead. Biggest "thinking ahead" is knowing when they can use morales by looking at your own morales. Or saving your VoN Window on SW to utilize your KD when a Mara goes for pull, or using BW Silence on Mara pull, however the BW one is pure reactionary and the only thinking ahead is the SW one really, but once again doesnt change if its 1.1 or 1.5 gcd youd make the same play.

Pretty much everything you mentioned still goes the same with a lower GCD or more off-GCD abilities. It has no impact on wether its a longer or slower GCD because its mostly all just basic gameplay youd utilize in any pvp not even exclusive to Warhammer.

Eh. I'll give you the general play being more-or-less the same with lower GCD. I was simply responding to your assertion there is no "outplay" as you call it in this game. Its there. But its not WoW-style and hopefully never will be.

However, having potions and consumables on GCD (whatever the time) very truly does make it a choice for for anticipation of what the enemy is going to do next. My choice to take time to drop one or two heal pots very much depends on my relative health, their relative health, my available CC, what CC I know my enemy has available and whether or where I think their morales are currently at. If that isn't thinking ahead then I guess we just have an irreconcilably different understanding of the term.

Well if the "outplay" in this game is thinking ahead about when to use pots then its just another win for defensive builds in this game, which we need to move away from and not towards. The repercussions of potions being on GCD Isnt as severe for someone like you on a Swordmaster as it is on a DPS Class especially a Glass cannon DPS class with cast times. You thinking ahead of when to use your 1.5 sec GCD Pot isnt as big of a deal, because the damage you will output in that GCD is a few hundred to a thousand or so, and you spending that GCD to press that pot will result in you taking a few hundred to a thousand damage. A glass cannon player pressing that GCD, means they lose out on upwards of 3k damage in that GCD Window, while also potentially taking the same amount of damage in that window. The potion rarely gives you health, because youll lose the same amount of health in the same time window if youre using it to survive damage. Which then becomes mute, if you use it while kiting away, youre then losing out on the very precious very needed damage to win the fight within the timeframe you need to before the defensive build player chugs pots at their own leisure.

If a glass cannon player could send out nukes at you, and immediately pot and go into the next damage that is a huge benefit comparatively to a Defensive player that might be able to dish out some damage while also regaining health. & We really dont need more things benefiting defensive players.

You might feel safe in those GCD windows especially as a Swordmaster player but its the culmination of all these systems that make full glass cannons the much worse playstyle in this game and even Glass cannon archetypes like witch elves resort to defensive builds. Which is unhealthy for the game

[Fey]

Just go play WoW dude. It's fine.

[gersy]

Just go play WoW dude. It's fine.

[Faction69]

Just go play WoW dude. It's fine.

Ironically WoW GCD is 1.5 seconds so this change made the game more like WoW, not less

[Sinisterror]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3468d1k-NQ Everyone can watch here one of the best (Solo)WAR Players Mdpv before GcD change from 1.15s to hardcapped 1.5s. Its easy to see how much better it flows than nowadays, not just because of his insane talent=)

[Fey]

Cutting the GCD by something like half a second is a terrible idea. It is not good for players with high latency. It is not good for new players. The GCD cut should be at most something like 1.3-1.5 seconds. Abilities and potions off the GCD are another discussion.

@Sinisterror

Your example here is an elite player using many abilities in short sequence allowing him to 1vX noobs. Yes it is very fluid for you, but is this good for the server? Still I believe that this encounter isn't particularly relevant to the GCD change. I've read the OP, with his 40k+ hours playing MMOS, and I just have to be that guy this time.

@OP

This is an eye-roll post at its most charitable. And I personally think these types of threads are detrimental to our small dev base. The fact that the server just had its 11 year anniversary is a miracle. Lost Vale is around the corner. The numbers are healthy even for summer. Just play the Nurgle-grabbing game.

If you think regen dps is OP, just build that and run it. The people who have been here for years already know. That particular meta (are we just talking about WB builds here?) took a giant hit with the proc nerf; because you build defensively, and proc your damage. Even ability-based procs like Skull-thumper/blurring shock have had an internal gcd added.

But with Sigmar's blessing, get your x4 fleshrenders, and sentinal whatever. Post your evidence and prove that this is an issue of rampant tanky regen dps. Meanwhile the rest of the server will grind their bastion weapon, and lotd jewelry sets, and their stupidly easy to get sent ring with +4 crit tali.

I don't exactly see the strong correlation of regen and GCD; but even if your regen build is quite strong, it just proves that the itemization in this game is on point. If you can regen dps your way to killing BiS Sov. heals then goddamn that would make this entire post. That would be a tremendous asset to those in the know who could then validate these now seldomly used builds. By the way the set-bonuses and itemization in this game are incredibly well optimized for varied playstyles. That is one of the strengths of this particular server.

"Currently theres (sic) nothing significant enough in this game to think ahead about,"

My guy, that is literally your 4 tactics. Surely you, infinitely killed by WE, knows that you can tailor your tactics to survive that very encounter. Archmage for example can slot, Run between Worlds, and also pop an anticipatory 30 second absorb potion. When you claim there is nothing in this game to think ahead about, I have trouble taking you seriously.

You think this is clunky and slow? Try an actual old-school MMO of which there are sundry examples.

Please do not sully this board by bringing up Wow. Wow has stun-lock, and many other bad mechanics. It is a poorly designed game.