White Lion Nerf when?

[ismetto]

Friends,

I believe the issue is not just about WL. The advantages and corresponding disadvantages between classes are neither equal nor even close to being balanced.

Lately, I’ve noticed something: players dominate on the Order side, farming everyone, then switch to Destro — only to be hit with the harsh reality

For a solo player, finishing the weekend SC event on the Order side usually takes no more than 1 or 2 hours.
On the Destro side, it's often impossible to complete it at all — maybe on the last day if you're lucky… (Because most of the veteran players are either gone or now play Order.)

Forming or joining a 6-man group on the Order side takes about 5 to 10 minutes.
On the Destro side, only a handful of guilds run premades, and they usually play internally. If they need a tank or a healer, they might bring someone in from outside.
Trying to form a PUG premade often takes 30–40 minutes, sometimes even up to an hour. And usually, the group disbands after just two SC losses.

Anyway, to keep it short…

Why do people choose to play on the Order side?

WH + tree combinations are incredibly synergistic. All abilities connect logically like a well-designed chain.

WPs have been walking around with triple armor for ages. This class alone has driven many enemy players to quit. I think any balance changes came far too late.

WL — no need to say much. They’ve got everything: engage, disengage, pull, high auto attack, CC, burst... you name it.

Slayer is one of the most effective damage dealers when played with the AOE tree.
Why waste time playing Choppa with a ST build? Choppa gets 3 or 4 useful abilities from the trees anyway.
Meanwhile, Slayer has all the tools — cooldown increasers, parry breakers, etc. — and pulls it off with a 3-target / AOE build.

So, in the end, I’m joining the others — I’ve decided to quit the game.
Will I come back someday? I don’t know.

Thanks to everyone. Take care of yourselves.
Ride well, warriors.

[storm]

@ Punisher, be sure to log in from time to time just to keep your names and guild if you have. I have played with you and you are a blessing to the community. Everyone needs a break sometimes. I wish they didn't leave things broken for so long. But we are at the mercy of volunteers who keep this gem alive. Lets hope things get better soon.

[Aethilmar]

The pet is broken and should be the place to start...

"Your ability hits namepet for X dmg". I can't even disarm the thing to prevent the pull. The other day one dodged my disarm, then parried it, but it never said blanky, 'your ability'.

I am truly baffled as to why you (and others in your gear/renown bracket) think WL is so broken. I took a look at your killboard for your DPS for last week and here is what I found:

Killamanjaro: 66 Kills, 35 deaths overall. 7 kills vs WL and 8 deaths to WL
Chomperz: 129 Kills, 47 deaths overall. 20 kills vs WL and 7 deaths to WL

You have a positive K/D ratio. You are break even or better vs WL.

Honestly feels like you and others are gaslighting here since it is very clear from your own play perspective WL are not dominating you. How much more winning do you need to be happy?

[Illuminati]

Since you parsed my data as a solo player over the last 6 months let me caveat it,

-I have been playing this game since 2008 and have a perspective that spanned from that time on live through all our years here from T1 only to what we have now.
-I've played most of the classes to 80+
-I did the lead the server WB leader thing, 6v6 thing, dueling thing, and everything in between

One thing veteran player's have is perspective across all game modes and types of play since we have most of the classes at high level. It's quite easy in fact, the look at these classes and their respective mirrors and have an opinion on balance.

I have a positive KD as a solo roamer on DPS classes because I know how the majority of them work at every mode of play.

However, the things that drive us to post here, and support others that have a similar perspective is when we see imbalances that are not good for the game. These either drive away new players or vanish long-time friends never to return. We absolutely understand how rare the pvp is in this game.

And the majority of us, not 5%, or 50% know when a class has gone too far. The reasons behind that stem from population imbalance to certain players wanting to be in the 6v6 community soo bad they make a little tweak here or then bam, it damages all levels/modes of play.

I am happy to gaslight my hope the server stays running for years. Max and the team did a great job. They don't need your perspective, nor mine, to do what is best for the game and the DPS patch will hopefully be a correction to the damage the Beastmaster and some others did when they had the privilege to do pull requests.

[gersy]

Since you parsed my data as a solo player over the last 6 months let me caveat it,

-I have been playing this game since 2008 and have a perspective that spanned from that time on live through all our years here from T1 only to what we have now.
-I've played most of the classes to 80+
-I did the lead the server WB leader thing, 6v6 thing, dueling thing, and everything in between

One thing veteran player's have is perspective across all game modes and types of play since we have most of the classes at high level. It's quite easy in fact, the look at these classes and their respective mirrors and have an opinion on balance.

I have a positive KD as a solo roamer on DPS classes because I know how the majority of them work at every mode of play.

However, the things that drive us to post here, and support others that have a similar perspective is when we see imbalances that are not good for the game. These either drive away new players or vanish long-time friends never to return. We absolutely understand how rare the pvp is in this game.

And the majority of us, not 5%, or 50% know when a class has gone too far. The reasons behind that stem from population imbalance to certain players wanting to be in the 6v6 community soo bad they make a little tweak here or then bam, it damages all levels/modes of play.

I am happy to gaslight my hope the server stays running for years. Max and the team did a great job. They don't need your perspective, nor mine, to do what is best for the game and the DPS patch will hopefully be a correction to the damage the Beastmaster and some others did when they had the privilege to do pull requests.

based

[Aethilmar]

Since you parsed my data as a solo player over the last 6 months let me caveat it,

-I have been playing this game since 2008 and have a perspective that spanned from that time on live through all our years here from T1 only to what we have now.
-I've played most of the classes to 80+
-I did the lead the server WB leader thing, 6v6 thing, dueling thing, and everything in between

One thing veteran player's have is perspective across all game modes and types of play since we have most of the classes at high level. It's quite easy in fact, the look at these classes and their respective mirrors and have an opinion on balance.

I have a positive KD as a solo roamer on DPS classes because I know how the majority of them work at every mode of play.

However, the things that drive us to post here, and support others that have a similar perspective is when we see imbalances that are not good for the game. These either drive away new players or vanish long-time friends never to return. We absolutely understand how rare the pvp is in this game.

And the majority of us, not 5%, or 50% know when a class has gone too far. The reasons behind that stem from population imbalance to certain players wanting to be in the 6v6 community soo bad they make a little tweak here or then bam, it damages all levels/modes of play.

I am happy to gaslight my hope the server stays running for years. Max and the team did a great job. They don't need your perspective, nor mine, to do what is best for the game and the DPS patch will hopefully be a correction to the damage the Beastmaster and some others did when they had the privilege to do pull requests.

Look, I'm not tryiing to pick on you. I know you know your stuff and I generally find running into you interesting (I can't say fun b/c I have to work hard to live but certainly interesting). But by your own criteria your Choppa and your SH (and I suspect most classes you play) need to be nerfed too as they clearly have high mobility (at least SH), high utility and high damage based on your kill stats and the kill stats of a lot of other Choppas and SH.

And not a day goes by that Order does yell for Mara to be nerfed (for pull ofc) but based on the information in this thread they also do the same (or more) damage as a WL with their signature AOE move and based on my own killboard deaths that actually tracks since they seem to show up often. AND they have far more utility than a WL so do they need a nerf too by your own reasoning?

The only actual sin of a WL it seems is the floor for it is very high which tends to make it popular and "fun". That said, I got an 80 WL too but I don't play it much b/c I find it boring. But other classes like Chosen and Knight have high floors as well. Nerf them?

Bottom line is WL are emininently killable. They do make mediocre players look better than they are but you can actually use that to your advantage. And in warband play they are statistically nothing special when put up against good competition.

But, sure, get WL nerfed (again). Already got Slayer nerfed (again). And SW nerfed (again). Wonder what you guys will go after next? Probably AM. Seems to be on the list these days. Or maybe Order will start stacking aoe BW again and suddenly they will be OP for x,y or z reasons.

[Lisutaris]

Only thing that needs some adjustments is maybe the close to none existing scaling with stats and weapon dps on the aoe swing. Base dmg a little bit lowered and stat scaling adjusted for same dmg if softcapped would make it more balanced as it feels wrong that toughness or stat debuff wont do anything/much.
Imo, not only a wl issue. No skills should work like that.

compared to wrecking ball btw, also high base but still more stats and weapon scaling than wl axe spin.

tldr: crap gear wl = close to same dmg with spin to win as high tier. = ew.

wb perspective ofc. Also not talking about wonky mechanics and such, like pets in keeps etc.

[Farrul]

Since the destro faction is heavy on Shamans, and WL is naturally srong vs the Shaman in 1vs1 or 6 mans this of course explains the extra fuel
added into the fire.

Player perception and point of view is the key thing to understand here. Destro players for some reason has always been the more vocal on this forum( to be fair, i believe this is due to a larger playerbase overall, on live like in RoR it was always the more populated faction).

There is perhaps some legitimacy to the WL being a little too strong( only in comparison mind you) in an AOE situation looking at pure damage numbers, but for example the destro mirror Mara is still strong at it and better than the WL in different way, tankier/easier to keep alive with better AOE utility, Pull is still so annoying from order point of view. More things than just pure DPS wins the game.

Obviously if the WL and Mara had equal DPS then WL would be underpowered by comparison.


The interesting thing is that WL has already been nerfed, many times over. The destros will just never end their complaining since the cause seems to be more psychological than anything else. It seems to be an allergic reaction to them seeing that '' White devil '' catching up to their hordes of little green midgets which otherwise kites everyone else with overpowered Dot magic ranged damage.

I remember not so long ago when, Pounce was 65ft, loner removed CD on Pounce. There were many point in keep/walls to jump over for some funny solo shenigans, aoe tactic had a 50% armor shred( didn't stack like today but still more dps overall). Yet every destro back then was QQing about the Slayer, Festering Arrow 4K crits etc. I didnt see that many WL complain threads back then, despite WL being far stronger than it is right now.

But all of a sudden the focus shifted, now WL is just '' too much'' despite being weaker than previously. Could it just be that other classes were nerfed and not so much about the WL per se?

Mind you, in times when the Regen def WE was pretty much invincible solo roamer, eating up 3 WL's at once or killing just about anything solo that moved( MDPV proved at the time, not even the best Arch Mage player on the server could defeat the Def WE). Maras pulling you from the Moon into their Praag WC, Choppas just about making RVR outside of keep walls unplayable due to their pulls everywhere. MAgus as OP solo roamer as it has always been, even got buffed in the latest patch.

Yes many things has been nerfed, some good changes by the devs and many bad ones, but overall i think many could agree the game just isn't as fun anymore.

I believe the real OP thing about the Order facton isn't WL at all, but the healing/salvation Warrior Priest. This seems to be the class that makes eveyone else shine including WL. Especially in premades/scenarios etc.

[leftayparxoun]

compared to wrecking ball btw, also high base but still more stats and weapon scaling than wl axe spin.

Both abilities have the exact same scaling for STR and the same weapon dps scaling if adjusted for the same ilvl dual wield and 2h weapons.

[Ruin]

compared to wrecking ball btw, also high base but still more stats and weapon scaling than wl axe spin.

Both abilities have the exact same scaling for STR and the same weapon dps scaling if adjusted for the same ilvl dual wield and 2h weapons.

BTW i know its a bit offtopic but do you know what is the difference between 1h and 2h weapons?
i made a slayer recently, and it seems that with similar stats my slayer and mara AA are marginaly less potent than my 2h WL or any 2h tank i have.
And i was under the impression that 2H weapons dmg should hitting a lot harder with the diferences ith have like slower speed.