White Lion Nerf when?

[leftayparxoun]

BTW i know its a bit offtopic but do you know what is the difference between 1h and 2h weapons?
i made a slayer recently, and it seems that with similar stats my slayer and mara AA are marginaly less potent than my 2h WL or any 2h tank i have.
And i was under the impression that 2H weapons dmg should hitting a lot harder with the diferences ith have like slower speed.

The main difference is that dual wielding weapons give +10% parry to you, while 2h weapons give 10% strikethrough (parry, block).

Besides that what changes is that for example in abilities, it's not just your main hand weapon Dps that contributes to the damage, but also your off-hand weapon. You can find out more about how to derive those coefficients in the second sheet in my damage calculator.
To give a relevant example, WL's Whirling Axe has a main-hand DPS coefficient of 1.3 while Mara's Wrecking Ball has a main-hand DPS coefficient of 1.3 and an off-hand DPS coefficient of 0.58

As for Auto Attacks themselves, you can find the exact formulas in this forum post.

As you can see there, for the AA damage per second (not damage per hit), the things that matter are basically MH weapon DPS (+ OH weapon DPS) + Damage Bonus + Haste. Furthermore, there's crits, Damage% boosts, and armor penetration.

[Farrul]

Even more broken is Magus been tankier than tanks and hit 2-3k crits.

In terms of solo roaming.

I quote from the solo tier list video, '' if you wanna be broken in this game(referring to solo). Play a Magus.

It has higher skill Ceiling than WL or the shaman/AM, but once you meet a player that knows what he is doing with Magus. It is the most dangerous destro class in this context. It is also more dangerous than any order toon, including the Arch mage. I would rather duel two BIS Witch elves at once than 1 competent Magus. I am sure my win% ratio is higher whith the former than the latter.

It's just that WL is better in the WB/Premade meta of course.

Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

Yes, but i believe it is too late, many when they join these discussions are either deliberately forgetfull, venting in frustration, or just don't care and want to see everything brought down to the same nerfing standard of the past 1-2 years +. It is quite sad to see the ship sink tbh.

Which is why, once they nerf things a little too far, i will be gone, i don't even play my WL these days but i would do it out of principle. Since i care for the game that once was. It would be time to move on.

But until then, still waiting for promises which seems to be just echoes in the wind, like for example IB/BG players and their promise of Grumble n mutter restoration(BG equivalent).

[KillerVolt]

Even more broken is Magus been tankier than tanks and hit 2-3k crits.

In terms of solo roaming.

I quote from the solo tier list video, '' if you wanna be broken in this game(referring to solo). Play a Magus.

It has higher skill Ceiling than WL or the shaman/AM, but once you meet a player that knows what he is doing with Magus. It is the most dangerous destro class in this context. It is also more dangerous than any order toon, including the Arch mage. I would rather duel two BIS Witch elves at once than 1 competent Magus. I am sure my win% ratio is higher whith the former than the latter.

It's just that WL is better in the WB/Premade meta of course.

Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

Yes, but i believe it is too late, many when they join these discussions are either deliberately forgetfull, venting in frustration, or just don't care and want to see everything brought down to the same nerfing standard of the past 1-2 years +. It is quite sad to see the ship sink tbh.

Which is why, once they nerf things a little too far, i will be gone, i don't even play my WL these days but i would do it out of principle. Since i care for the game that once was. It would be time to move on.

But until then, still waiting for promises which seems to be just echoes in the wind, like for example IB/BG players and their promise of Grumble n mutter restoration(BG equivalent).

Magus is just about the strongest solo on destro rn, really good against def WLs but high dps WL can still be a bit tricky.
Only way AM wins the fight is hiding behind terrain to heal back to full.

[Illuminati]

Since you parsed my data as a solo player over the last 6 months let me caveat it,

-I have been playing this game since 2008 and have a perspective that spanned from that time on live through all our years here from T1 only to what we have now.
-I've played most of the classes to 80+
-I did the lead the server WB leader thing, 6v6 thing, dueling thing, and everything in between

One thing veteran player's have is perspective across all game modes and types of play since we have most of the classes at high level. It's quite easy in fact, the look at these classes and their respective mirrors and have an opinion on balance.

I have a positive KD as a solo roamer on DPS classes because I know how the majority of them work at every mode of play.

However, the things that drive us to post here, and support others that have a similar perspective is when we see imbalances that are not good for the game. These either drive away new players or vanish long-time friends never to return. We absolutely understand how rare the pvp is in this game.

And the majority of us, not 5%, or 50% know when a class has gone too far. The reasons behind that stem from population imbalance to certain players wanting to be in the 6v6 community soo bad they make a little tweak here or then bam, it damages all levels/modes of play.

I am happy to gaslight my hope the server stays running for years. Max and the team did a great job. They don't need your perspective, nor mine, to do what is best for the game and the DPS patch will hopefully be a correction to the damage the Beastmaster and some others did when they had the privilege to do pull requests.

Look, I'm not tryiing to pick on you. I know you know your stuff and I generally find running into you interesting (I can't say fun b/c I have to work hard to live but certainly interesting). But by your own criteria your Choppa and your SH (and I suspect most classes you play) need to be nerfed too as they clearly have high mobility (at least SH), high utility and high damage based on your kill stats and the kill stats of a lot of other Choppas and SH.

And not a day goes by that Order does yell for Mara to be nerfed (for pull ofc) but based on the information in this thread they also do the same (or more) damage as a WL with their signature AOE move and based on my own killboard deaths that actually tracks since they seem to show up often. AND they have far more utility than a WL so do they need a nerf too by your own reasoning?

The only actual sin of a WL it seems is the floor for it is very high which tends to make it popular and "fun". That said, I got an 80 WL too but I don't play it much b/c I find it boring. But other classes like Chosen and Knight have high floors as well. Nerf them?

Bottom line is WL are emininently killable. They do make mediocre players look better than they are but you can actually use that to your advantage. And in warband play they are statistically nothing special when put up against good competition.

But, sure, get WL nerfed (again). Already got Slayer nerfed (again). And SW nerfed (again). Wonder what you guys will go after next? Probably AM. Seems to be on the list these days. Or maybe Order will start stacking aoe BW again and suddenly they will be OP for x,y or z reasons.

I respect your comments. Think of it this way, and I'll use one easy example.

1. WL pet can be cast on the move. This is much much better than having to do it stationary.
2. The SH pet has to cast when you're stationary. (not sure about Magus tbh).

That feature alone is not only a QOL thing but has impact on playstyle, etc.

The SHs wanted the change back to where they can cast their pet on the move. I forget the response, but I think it was something like the Devs agreed and would work on that. Years went by.

So, instead of asking for a buff/improvement to SH to match WL that went nowhere, the obvious reaction is nerf Wl.

You can take this one example and point out 20 other things WL has that other classes do not (e.g. Heal Debuff 2H on a 360 AOE, 360 AOE vs Cone, Pull requires a more difficult avoidance check on the mirror, the pull is instant and at a range that doesn't align to the animation or pet distance, etc. etc.)

We would all prefer buffs to classes, but I believe the correct approach is bring WL down a little bit and bring other classes up a little bit. And probably some other classes down a little bit if they surpass reasonable avoidance/mitigation minimums (e.g. avoiding all resistance / armor attacks, etc.)

[salazarn]

Which is why, once they nerf things a little too far, i will be gone, i don't even play my WL these days but i would do it out of principle. Since i care for the game that once was. It would be time to move on.

Dps classes need buffs not nerfs indeed. It's boring sitting in sc doing nothing cos the damage isn't there

[Bozzax]

[Bowldancer]

You picked a 4 hour window.



Looks much more balanced.

[Bozzax]

Was only implying kills are occurring rather frequently

[Bowldancer]

Was only implying kills are occurring rather frequently

Ah my bad. I got the wrong implication.

[Illuminati]

Was only implying kills are occurring rather frequently

The TTK? not sure if the recent armor potion / ability thing was a good idea. Again, this turns into a balance debate on whether classes with armor debuffs, weapon armor debuffs, gain an advantage now (e.g. ~5% more damage) with the armor nerfs.