JohnnyWayne wrote: Sun Sep 14, 2025 11:40 pm
It is time to give grudge generation for atttacking to the IB, just as the BG has. All the reasoning was done already on the PTS forum topic:
JohnnyWayne wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 10:42 am
Originally, BGs had no oath friend equivalent. They got dark protector after complaints. That is also the reason why they get hate through dealing damage and IBs don't. Time to makes things balanced on that end. There used to be the argument, that IBs are more tanky but that is no longer the case with grumble and mutter gone. Also there was a point to be made, with Told You So! being unlimited and therefore you had to limit the AP battery. That is also gone with Gravords "rework" of the IB. And finally, why should 2h IBs that have no such tools with them(told you so and grumble and mutter) be in such a disadvantageous position? Give 2h IBs grudge generation on hit or IBs in general. Its high time. By now, i think, it is the weakest tank for group play.
Oh and before you jump onto any train, I have both classes in bis gear. SnB and 2h. And many more...
BGs were meant to debuff (which is way more effective due to aoe effects than buffing due to ST effects) and never had a dark protector. The Absorb effect is sub par. You even have to spend attribute points to get it. A lot of things are sub par. IB is, among all tanks, the weakest option at the moment.
Im not against buffing IB, it especially falls well into current balance logic of unifying everything, however tho - "You should be careful what you wish for" (c).
I believe (or even put it like "im sure") if grudge generation for attacking will be mirrored then IB will be butchered and balance team will rework its abilities. You miss very important difference between BG and IB. BG has 0 abilities which damage scale with hate, while IB not only has higher base&modificatiors it has lots of heavy hitting abilities that are tied into grudges. So its highly likely if this grudge/hate unification that many do lobby sees the light of day it will end up with IB being butchered dmg wise into BG level (so no fancy dot stacking bursts) without giving it a) spamable aoe b) cd reduction c) other additional utilities. I vote for stuff to stay as is, enough of unique role/design defining things being blurred or plain removed, almost no outliners left already.
Thankfully ability viewer is once again working (i confess, i even had conspiracy theories when it broke, my apologieses) so you can check for yourself atm. Check channels, check heavy blow, snare. Compare it to similar BG skills.
P.S. GnM was perfect SnB AP battery spec, i did love it for its high efficiency, it definitely brough SnB IB as the most desired 2nd tank, however it was pretty simple and dull gameplay. But what we have now, in particular weaving SaS, is not any better, sadly. Some complex proactive AP pump (but not way too complex, class has enough stuff to track already) being back as most effective&reliable AP pump in a game would be cool and definitely required to keep up IB with changes to other tanks imo.
P.S.S. Agree with many that BoG is completely worthless in largescale oRvR (if you dont roam in small group), ive even got some proper parsed data to support it from slayer PoV. Its pretty simple and dull thingy for smallscale, but its very popular because this skill, like many new skills from particular balance era (yes, im about Furious Stompin) falls into category of "fire&forget" (what a design! /sarcasm), its altho totally OP in PvE, but purely mathematically IB can overcompensate that AA dmg buff by its own dmg if it goes offensive with GBF and killboard has 6v6 data proving it (especially from last tournament, i think ive shared it somewhere on forums already).
Altho! I cant agree that IB is the weakest tank for group play, and how to define strongest/weakest, what are the criteria, looks like populism. For absolutely awful, disgusting, brainless WL largescale oRvR meta maybe but well, IB does the job in it too. I struggle to thinktank an experiment to value the exact effeciency of SM vs IB in such meta, what data to parse (WW vs 5% more crit+25 ap/3 sec?) and how count in utility. For smallscale? Nah, definitely not, it shines so bright there that its definitely anything but not weakest. Also its all pretty balanced on smallscale, there are comps with SM, there are comps with IB. Alot of variety. Like it should be.
AP pump is still there, yes, you cant do it passively with GnM anymore, its thus less effective but its still arguably best pump, guaranteed 25 ap/3 sec. Additional snare break for oathfriend or/and 6 seconds immunity (crap mini We'z Bigger/Vaul), parry/-crit is incredibly huge factor for largescale oRvR (it reduces pressure by tons and it actually has less effective value in smallscale then it has in orvr), 5 more crit not so much (its very debatable tbf).
