WE - against WHs

[abezverkhiy1]

Thank you guys for your comments but I was hoping to see more constructive feedback rather than hatefest.

More interested to know tricks against fighting WHs rather than hearing same comments about broken and OP specs. We live in this reality, better deal with it, devs are not in a hurry to fix obvious gaps in balance, they are busy tweaking chosens.

[Krima]

Thank you guys for your comments but I was hoping to see more constructive feedback rather than hatefest.

More interested to know tricks against fighting WHs rather than hearing same comments about broken and OP specs. We live in this reality, better deal with it, devs are not in a hurry to fix obvious gaps in balance, they are busy tweaking chosens.

CHAT GTP translation:

First of all, don’t ever play regen WE. That’s a noob spec and has no place in endgame content.

Land the first hit — that’s always ideal.
If you can’t and you get jumped, use Agile Escape to reset the fight.

When you see Repel Blasphemy (RB) go up, immediately use:
Potions
Absorb
Morale 1
Agile Escape
Detaunt if needed.

Positioning is key: whoever lands the first stun usually controls the fight. Always try to hit the enemy’s back as much as possible.

Counters:
Use Elixir of Shadows to counter Repel Blasphemy and M1.
I like to hold Elixir of Shadows to counter their Vanish — only use after the WH pops theirs.
Many WHs pop M1 when low on health — that’s your chance to finish them with Sever Nerve (1200 dmg) .

Tactics Loadouts: can switch while stealth to have advantage, I mean, opening up from stealth with TOB, BF, Swift Blades, Riposte on WH while they are on offensive setup its lots of adavantage.

TOB, BF, FM, Swift Blades
TOB, BF, Swift Blades, Riposte
TOB, BF, Swift Blades, Sacrifices Reward

any build can work actually, the best all around i would say is OYK + shadows,

Class Tools

WH have strong anti-melee tools (Repel Blasphemy, Seeker’s Blade).
WE has better stun potential (two hits from OYK).

Fight Philosophy:

It’s usually a battle of who makes fewer mistakes when both players have equal gear and skill.

Common mistakes:

Wasting multiple GCDs while the opponent is under M1 or RB.
Landing stun right out from stealth, try to sneak at least 1 gcd before stun.

[Faction69]

Either play defense regen build and there is no way you should lose with equal gear

OR play with finesse and try to kite during repel blasphemy then go back in

It's not a very complicated matchup, usually whoever gets opener will win, unless you spam a bunch of abilities into Repel blasphemy and riposte, then you will lose. Most players will simply mez and run away rather than try to fight if they don't get the opener (on both sides of this matchup).
unless they are regen then they should just stand there and fight cus they win automatically

The disadvantage of not getting the opener is immense. Not only do you obviously start the fight way behind, but you also will be forced to use your knockdown from the front, which gives it a 20%+ chance of being parried. if this happens you basically lose the fight automatically, which is why most people just don't even take fights when they don't get opener.

Also I would not recommend trying to sneak in a gcd before knockdown if you get the opener, because a good player will be fast enough to turn around and KD you before you can get the 2nd gcd off. 1.5 seconds is a long time.

[Farrul]

My sov SM basically auto loses against a def WE (crit build specifically for solo roaming with 77% parry and 600+ toughness) unless I go boring regen+procc build myself and even then it's a tough fight that can go either ways. "really low damage" also doesn't apply, their initial WB burst chunks me for easily half my life. There are well known solo roamers, like Yoluigi further up, agreeing that the class is beyond busted currently and yet here you are claiming it's only good against new players.

There was a time when Def WE was a lot worse than it currently is, imagine everything you said, then add unmitigable dmg on top of it.

But i do agree, the concept of the DEF WE is wrong, and someting the developers should try to address in the upcomng dps patches. Stealth character shouldn't be regen tanks, with the added benefits of disengage tools and sneak attacks, it's fundamentally wrong. She is still overpowered despite WB being nerfed, no doubt about it. The Damage is way too high for amount of damage she can mitigate, too imbalanced.

Anyways, as for your SM, it's one of the few that can defeat her but it requires a specific build , 0% crit chance build with HIGH str stacking( 900-1000) to get trhough her toughness, don't worry about your toughness it won't help you too much ( keep in the 500 range is enough). Then the correct gameplay, i.e Taunt---> Stun--->flank---->Ether dance. If you miss the rotation a few times you've lost the duel. Remember that vs Def WE your crit works against you, unless you're a Whitelion or a much burstier class. SM doesn't have that level of burst to benefit from the crit in this fight, it will work against you. ( which is why the devs must nerf it down to max 400 absorb)

I see many SM's trying to just brawl mindless vs WE's and Chosens and lose. If you flank like that and learn it well( USE dicerning offence tactic) SM is still capable of beating any Destro melee. What really sucks is the nerf of the resistance liniment from 360--> 180, you need your corp rest to be 800( talisman maybe) or will take too high dmg. I've seen a few SM'S stack corp to 1k. Don't use crit weapon(fort). Use scenario Def weapon.

A very good Def WE will however never lose to any melee since they stagger and disengage/reset but A lot of WE'S on this serve aren't great players, they're just using an overpowered build and will panic and lose the fight. My win ratio vs regen WE on SM is over 90% ( although i am retired isince the liniment nerf).

P.S. I forgot to mention the nerf of Wrath of hoeth from 370 to 240. SM might not be capable to win anymore with these nerfs, Magus is just ridiculous now, try a KOTBS instead.

[Amakusa]

I hope we get rid of Elixir of Shadows and Sanctified Oil when the DPS rework is done.
The Commitment to a fight is currently like 0 because you can always escape with no effort.

[Sinisterror]

I hope we get rid of Elixir of Shadows and Sanctified Oil when the DPS rework is done.
The Commitment to a fight is currently like 0 because you can always escape with no effort.

The speed buff should be removed from those abilities, and make it not share cooldown with other two elixirs. It's now Gcd ignoring 3s that get small speed boost when using tha ability, speed buff only should be at the start and only 1sec.

Shield removed from Wp/Dok and removing speed boost from these 2 abilities would truely be huge return to the original holy triad. Dps wp dok can use heals that are not affected by heal debuffs. Thats why they dont need charge or shield. Wh/We 30s stealth back, you had to use it much more skillfully than now.

[wildwindblows]

For some classes deftard build is only way to play because dps spec nerfed to the ground. Also you have to keep in mind, deftard builds have really low damage output so this build will only kill solo new players in rvr.

Absolutely insane take on this topic. Anyone defending def/regen WE at this point is either playing one themselves or lack the knowledge to understand how a class like WE should function and why it shouldn't be nearly as tanky as it is.
There is NO excuse to have a class with near permanent bubbles, multiple engages/disengages, STEALTH to pick the fights you want, the ability to stack skyhigh parry AND regeneration on top plus high dps which, by the way, is mostly magical. What you end up with is an absolute abomination of a class with a missing identity. The class was designed as an assassin, something with a lot of damage that excels at 1v1'ing unprepared or bad enemies, not to be this near impossible to beat nightmare it is right now.
The statement of it "only killing solo new players" couldn't be further from the truth. My sov SM basically auto loses against a def WE (crit build specifically for solo roaming with 77% parry and 600+ toughness) unless I go boring regen+procc build myself and even then it's a tough fight that can go either ways. "really low damage" also doesn't apply, their initial WB burst chunks me for easily half my life. There are well known solo roamers, like Yoluigi further up, agreeing that the class is beyond busted currently and yet here you are claiming it's only good against new players.

Fiestly, no i dont play w.e.
Secondly, wh is also supposed to be assassian class which means high risk high reward class but we/wh both low risk high reward class for a long while. They have so many skills to escape so they dont die although they do mistakes. This is a thing neede to be adjusted.
As conclusion, i hope regen gears will be removed in future patch for a fair gameplay.

[Shieldslam]

Anyways, as for your SM, it's one of the few that can defeat her but it requires a specific build

Thanks for the advice. Though, while I do know how to tweak my build to fit the matchup (as you said, preferably 0% crit because of absorb on being crit / taunt into kd into channel, etc.) I simply refuse to play a procc regen build myself due to .. well, probably pride and ego? I don't see much sense in playing in a way that leaves my opponents without many, if any, chances. I'm full crit and if I die doing so then so be it but at the end of the day I can say I'm winning because of my gameplay not because my build carries me. My SM is specifically crafted in a way that provides me with a chance to win against anything if I play well (except good Sham/Zeal or def we/magus) without being ashamed of running it because I'm near invincible. If people want to have a 1v1 for 5 min trying to out-regen each other then they're welcome but I don't see much accomplishment in playing in such a way.

RoR has no ranking system, no fame to be gained, nothing you get out of winning a fight besides the fun it provides hence why it's questionable to me why some are trying this hard to never lose. Same goes for disengaging via (self-)punt when they're close to dying in a good 1v1, let your opponent have the win they deserve as you don't lose anything. If I wanted to always win I'd play AM/Sham/Magus instead of suffering on a offensively build tank getting zerged 90% of the time. I wish more people would play fair but it is what it is I guess.

With that being said, huge respect to those who run an offensive build (especially WE, takes some willpower to not go for the overtuned easy to play build) - hope to run into more of you.

[Faction69]

I hope we get rid of Elixir of Shadows and Sanctified Oil when the DPS rework is done.
The Commitment to a fight is currently like 0 because you can always escape with no effort.

The speed buff should be removed from those abilities, and make it not share cooldown with other two elixirs. It's now Gcd ignoring 3s that get small speed boost when using tha ability, speed buff only should be at the start and only 1sec.

Shield removed from Wp/Dok and removing speed boost from these 2 abilities would truely be huge return to the original holy triad. Dps wp dok can use heals that are not affected by heal debuffs. Thats why they dont need charge or shield. Wh/We 30s stealth back, you had to use it much more skillfully than now.

Just a stupid idea, a melee class needs to have a gap closer otherwise you literally just auto lose to a single knockback or escape ability from anyone, or even a slow given that we and wh have no slow. If anything, remove the invis from the ability. It's the least important component out of its 2 effects.